"There is no phone ringing, dammit!"
Posted on 12/04/2005 12:12:07 AM PST by Termite_Commander
A VIETNAMESE doctor who has treated dozens of victims of avian flu claims the drug being stockpiled around the world to combat a pandemic is “useless” against the virus. Dr Nguyen Tuong Van runs the intensive care unit at the Centre for Tropical Diseases in Hanoi and has treated 41 victims of H5N1. Van followed World Health Organisation (WHO) guidelines and gave her patients Tamiflu, but concluded it had no effect.
“We place no importance on using this drug on our patients,” she said. “Tamiflu is really only meant for treating ordinary type A flu. It was not designed to combat H5N1 . . . (Tamiflu) is useless.”
Her verdict casts doubt on the pandemic flu policy put in place by the Irish government. Mary Harney, the minister for health, has ordered 1m doses to “protect” a quarter of the population against the flu pandemic.
Van, who has also treated patients with Sars, the respiratory condition linked to birds, said avian flu had a frightening effect on its victims and the only way to keep patients alive was to “support” all their vital organs, including the liver and kidneys, with modern technology such as ventilators and dialysis machines.
Van would not criticise governments for stockpiling Tamiflu but said doctors had to explain its limitations. Roche, the company that makes Tamiflu, has sold stockpiles of the drug to 40 countries and insists there is clear evidence it will protect against a future flu virus. However, it stresses the drug must be given within 48 hours to be effective.
“Laboratory studies show that Tamiflu is effective against all strains of flu,” said Bill Hall, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory, who defended Ireland’s stockpiling of Tamiflu and other flu treatments. “The only limitation is when it is not administered within the first 24 hours of onset of symptoms.”
The WHO admitted Tamiflu had not been widely successful in humans. “However, we believe in many Asian countries it hasn’t been used until late in the illness,” a spokesman said.
Influenza virus is very hard to treat, because of its very high mutation rate. That's why public-health measures like prompt slaughter of exposed fowl and swine are so vital.
There are no magic bullets against this virus at this time. Which is not the same thing as saying no way to fight the virus.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
"Der goggles - - they do NOTHINGK!"
.
ping
"There is no phone ringing, dammit!"
No magic bullet. More like a bandaid.
The clinical utility of this agent (and zanamavir) has never been compared with amantadine and rimantidine in a head-to-head trial AFAIK, but in practice the older drugs are much more potent.
In the rare human cases of H5N1 disease, death is fairly rapid, thus, it would be surprising if basically weak drugs had any effect at all.
Tamiflu must be administered within the first 24 hours of onset.
Note to Vietnamese doctor: READ THE DIRECTIONS.
Tamiflu must be administered within the first 24 hours of onset.
Tamiflu must be administered within the first 24 hours of onset.
Tamiflu must be administered within the first 24 hours of onset.
I wonder how fast the onset of severe symptoms are with bird flu. Do you go straight into check-into-the-hospital sick or do you start with a headache and a tingle in your throat that takes a day to manifest itself into something worse?
Well, that's nice to know.
When it not only won't help the patient, but when it will have an increased likelihood of selecting (sorry, "intelligently designing") resistance in future generations of the virus. You'd think doctors, even in Asia, would know this ... But Noooooooo! Follow the instructions, guys ... Please!
Not as easy as it sounds. H5N1 sneaks up pretty quickly, and the first symptoms seem like the flu, or even a bad case of the common cold.
Many people don't come into the hospital for such things, and so when they do, it's progressed to a severe stage and Tamiflu may no longer be effective. Also, this strain of avian flu seems to be entering patients, and they are asymptomatic until it's too late to do anything.
Everyone [who has any] will be taking Tamiflu at the first symptom they think is a flu symptom.
Why would anyone have Tamiflu if it has not been prescribed by a doctor?
I read here that several FReepers already had doses of something [I thought it was Tamiflu] socked away, just in case. It's been over a week, so I don't recall the thread.
Well, if they want to waste their medicine in a panicked state, then they may not have it when it counts. Their loss.
Thanks for posting the article.
PING
If I recall correctly, Tamiflu is effective against some strains of the H5N1 virus--China, never a very reliable reporter, insists that it is effective in the Chinese strains. That may be because Chinese farmers were routinely using amantadine (again, if I remember correctly) to prevent avian flu in their flocks.
The VN strain has been shown to be more resistant to Tamiflu, although anyone who has survived has been treated with it. Some authorities say the dose should be doubled to be effective, but I have a concern that the side effects may be more severe.
Amantadine is a very potent drug with severe side effects used to treat Parkinson's. At one time I thought it would be very useful. I no longer think so.
On the other hand, in the worst case scenario, who wouldn't try everything possible for hope?
However, the 75mg dose is almost certainly too low, and five days is not enough.
If I ever get infected with H5N1, I plan to take 150 mg Tamiflu BID together with 100 mg rimantidine BID for possible synergy.
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