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To: PatrickHenry

These articles always fail to address the elephant in the room: Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium. If evolution as an explanation of the origins of life can't hold water, then how can one put the same burden of proof on any other theory.


243 posted on 12/05/2005 12:35:53 PM PST by dotnetfellow
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To: dotnetfellow
If evolution as an explanation of the origins of life can't hold water, then how can one put the same burden of proof on any other theory

How can you expect evolution to adequately explain the origins of life when it's not even part of the theory? Your beef is with abiogenisis not with evolution.

Do you discount germ theory because it doesn't encompass how "germs" originated?

247 posted on 12/05/2005 12:39:29 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: dotnetfellow
Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium. If evolution as an explanation of the origins of life can't hold water, then how can one put the same burden of proof on any other theory.

Nice bait-and-switch! Evolution is not "an explanation of the origins of life," so that has nothing to do with "the same burden of proof on any other theory."

Brush up on some definitions and try again later (from a google search):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence)

Observation: any information collected with the senses

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Faith the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof

Impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Based on this, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

254 posted on 12/05/2005 12:41:53 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: dotnetfellow
"Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium. If evolution as an explanation of the origins of life can't hold water, then how can one put the same burden of proof on any other theory."

Evolution has NEVER BEEN an explanation for the origins of life. And Punctuated Equalibria theory is not about the origins of life either. Nor is it opposed to evolution in any way, or to natural selection. Nothing you stated is correct.
256 posted on 12/05/2005 12:42:42 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: dotnetfellow
Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium.

PE does not contradict evolution. Indeed, Darwin actually postulated punctuated equilibrium in his writings.

260 posted on 12/05/2005 12:52:44 PM PST by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: dotnetfellow
Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium.

Darwin and Punctuated Equilibrium. "PE" was actually predicted by Darwin.

268 posted on 12/05/2005 1:27:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: dotnetfellow
These articles always fail to address the elephant in the room: Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium. If evolution as an explanation of the origins of life can't hold water,

Darwin talks about what is now called punctuated equalibrium in "Origin of Species". Please specify the "evidence of punctuated equlibrium" to which you refer. No biologist is surprised to hear that evolution moves faster when the environment changes faster.

then how can one put the same burden of proof on any other theory.

There is no such thing as proof in a natural science.

298 posted on 12/05/2005 2:23:41 PM PST by donh
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To: dotnetfellow
These articles always fail to address the elephant in the room: Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium.

Come again? There are examples of punc eq in the fossil record: that is cases where the gradual transition between species in a particular geographic area and in a geologically brief time horizon has been captured in the fossil record. For instance Niles Eldgridge found a smooth transition between two species of trilobites that elsewhere in fossil record appeared abruptly without transition.

Nor is punc eq the only mode of change in the fossil record. Cases of phyletic gradualism have also been documented in the fossil record.

IOW species sometimes evolve rapidly in small and isolated populations and at other times change from one species to happens gradually and among larger populations.

I fail to understand the difficulty you think you see.

315 posted on 12/05/2005 2:50:38 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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