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To: sauron
"If a Creator did in fact design Life, then there likely cannot be any evidence to be found: The Creator would reside outsidethe universe, outside of spacetime.

We, as part of the created universe, would have no way of detecting something from "outside" our universe."

Thank you for making our point that ID is not a scientific idea.
285 posted on 12/05/2005 2:03:03 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Thank you for making our point that ID is not a scientific idea.

NO, I'm actually in full agreement with that statement. NO difference of opinion, there.

We, as a species, are forever unable to use science to prove/disprove ID claims. I find them intellectually challenging. Just because we can't disprove/prove doesn't mean they aren't valid (as you probably realize).

The intent of my argument was to carry the idea further, out of the realm of biology and into physics, where it would be provable, through deduction: the universe cannot have created itself. (Q.v., Kalam Cosmological Argument, no such thing as an actual infinite, begging the question, etc.)

The universe cannot have been created through the agency of other matter and energy coming from elsewhere, because it would merely beg the question: what created that? Therefore, "brane theory" falls apart.

I am constantly suprised that Christians are challenged (fairly, I must say) by those who attack their claims saying that Christians (or Deists) invoke God when they can't explain something. We do. But the rhetorical rules must be evenly applied: When physicists can't explain Big Bang, they just as deceitfully resort to brane theory, which is violating the same rhetorical principles, and is also a cop-out, begging the question, giving us no answer.

They're too proud to admit it. They also don't want to play by the same rules they attempt to hold Deists to.

It is completely plausible, given the facts that we have, that an Intelligent Designer created Life. If the universe created it (Pantheism), then the ultimate quesiton would be, fine, what created the universe? Again, the mind is pointed toward an extra-univeral entity.

Don't get me wrong: Science and the Judeo-Christian religion point strongly to each other. There is no conflict between them which will not be resolved as it always has been.

Peace.

Sauron

294 posted on 12/05/2005 2:17:58 PM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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