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US considers exchanging Jewish spy for jailed Fatah leader
Xinhuanet ^ | 12-5-05

Posted on 12/06/2005 1:49:57 PM PST by SJackson

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To: SJackson
"GAZA, Dec. 5 (Xinhuanet) -- The United States is considering the possibility of releasing a Jewish spy in return for the release of jailed Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti, Israeli media reported Monday."

I think it's an interesting offer: our USA exchanging a hostage of Romanized law for a terrorist.
51 posted on 12/06/2005 8:13:45 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: The_Republican
"Pollard is a Great Hero to Isreal and Zionist around the world.
He did more damage to our security than anyone else who has ever walked this planet.
If he was not Jewish, he would be 6 feet under as we speak. Instead, he has a chance to live out rest of his life as a Hero.
All you can do is tip your hat to power of Jewish Lobby!
"

You'd think that everyone would know about that world conspiracy, since the reports were released from Area 51 in Roswell, New Mexico a long time ago. But why would the neo-cons need to spy on our Government after they've already developed interstellar flying saucers?

[Snork..hehe..gasp...cough.]
52 posted on 12/06/2005 8:36:56 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: gaijin

"I take it you are puzzled that people in Israel want him back at all, then...?"

Not a bit puzzled.
The leaders of the Israeli government are much more hard-minded, but if the Americans are behind this initiative, as I expect they are, they are relying on the soft emotionalism of the Israeli people for a man who has been presented to them as a suffering martyr for Israel to put political pressure on the government that a Sharon, eager to create his new party, will be loth to defy in an election cycle.

This gets rid of a US public relations problem with Israel.
The only problem is trying to figure out the sense in the US game here. Bagoudi seems like a pretty bad candidate for release.

Of course, over the past few years American intelligence and foreign policy operations have proved catastrophically inept and foolish, so there may not be any deeper American plan here other than naive reliance on assurances of goodwill and hoping for the best. The current team has given no-one any great cause for confidence that they know what they're doing.


53 posted on 12/06/2005 8:52:10 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: SJackson

This story sounds ridiculous.

"Barghouti's wife, Fadwa, said her husband's strong showing is a message to Israel that "Marwan is not a terrorist"

Really? I thought it was the other way around.


54 posted on 12/06/2005 10:58:09 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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To: Vicomte13

Here is what is wrong with your analysis. The Jews In Israel and in US that care about Pollard are the same ones that are hardliners on terror. They would not advocate for such a trade releasing the terror master Barghouti.

Sheetrit and Beilin who want Barghouti freed could care less about Pollard. They are in the game, to use your expression, because they believe in Palestinian democracy and believe that the Palestinians will reform and abandon terror. They and their followers could care less about Pollard. Just read what they said -- nothing on Pollard, all about Barghouti's potential.


55 posted on 12/06/2005 11:09:48 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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To: SJackson

Stupid idea. They're both criminals. Keep them both in jail.


56 posted on 12/07/2005 2:25:43 AM PST by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

second the motion.


57 posted on 12/07/2005 2:29:36 AM PST by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: Sabramerican

"Any chance that mole computer program was also responsible for bringing down Challenger?"

I am now cleaning coffee off my monitor.


58 posted on 12/07/2005 4:13:49 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: dervish

"Here is what is wrong with your analysis. The Jews In Israel and in US that care about Pollard are the same ones that are hardliners on terror. They would not advocate for such a trade releasing the terror master Barghouti."

Well, then it's another foolish gaffe by the US government that won't work. The American government's to see Bagoudi released does not make much sense to me at all. Why not, instead, kill off these terrorist leaders when captured to clear the decks for others who are willing to be more reasonable to take over. There could be no movement at all so long as the old terrorist Arafat was alive. He needed to be dead for anything to happen, because the power of his connections could not be overcome by reasoned self-interest and fear.

Seems to me that the template needs to be to kill the Palestinian terror leaders (and footsoldiers) whenever you get them in your power. Don't detain them and release them. Kill them. And keep on doing it until you've thinned out the ranks of militant leadership.

Then someone like a Jerry Adams will step forward, someone who may be bloodyminded as hell, but who will play the game politically. You don't like him, and you don't trust him, but there are basic rules of the game. Get the gun out of Israeli/Palestinian politics in the same way that Adams and Trimble got the gun out of Irish politics, and you will have come a long, long way towards resolving the issue.

That assumes that it can't be resolved, and that it's not really Amalek versus the Hebrews, and ordained by God and the Devil to be a perpetual war which can never be resolved until the end of the world. This may be the truth of the case, but we can't base our policies on that assumption.

So, let's just say that the American game here seems to be to try and work with some known terrorist, and to dangle Pollard out there as a worm. And this game seems pretty foolish, by my lights.


59 posted on 12/07/2005 7:59:49 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: gaijin

Satellite imagery from a US KH-11 satellite ... was used to plan the 7 June 1981 attack on the Tammuz-1 reactor at Osiraq, Iraq. This attack, carried out by 8 F-16s accompanied by 6 F-15s punched a hole in the concrete reactor dome before the reactor began operation (and just days before an Israeli election) and delivered 15 delay-fuzed 2000 lb bombs deep into the reactor structure (the 16th bomb hit a nearby hall). The blasts shredded the reactor and blew out the dome foundations, causing it to collapse on the rubble.

25 years of a world without a Iranian nuclear threat resulted - definitely good for the U.S. The threat is back and it will again have to be dealt with.


60 posted on 12/07/2005 2:35:27 PM PST by Mack Truck
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To: Mack Truck
What you're telling me is that he transferred the very images used by the Israeli pilots to destroy the reactor?

If my understanding is correct, could you direct me to a source?

61 posted on 12/07/2005 2:45:31 PM PST by gaijin
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To: SJackson
It shouldn't surprise anybody that the Chicoms are helping to spread this rumor.

Pollard and Barghouti can both rot in their respective jail cells forever as far as I'm concerned.

Same with Mumia Abu-Jamal.

Just let 'em rot.

62 posted on 12/07/2005 3:02:02 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Vicomte13

"Well, then it's another foolish gaffe by the US government that won't work. '

I suspect the Israeli left here pushing their agenda.

"Then someone like a Jerry Adams will step forward, someone who may be bloodyminded as hell, but who will play the game politically."

I think the US, Pres Bush and Secretary Rice, think Abbas is that man. The US has engaged in this wishful thinking before, and it has led nowhere good. PM Sharon has no such illusions. Disengagement was the unilateral act of a government which saw no one who could make or keep a deal on the Palestinian side. The Road Map is being imposed.


63 posted on 12/07/2005 3:57:44 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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To: Mack Truck
How exactly did the destruction of "Tammuz-1 reactor at Osiraq, Iraq, stop Iranian nuclear threat????
64 posted on 12/07/2005 4:05:46 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: dervish

"Then someone like a Jerry Adams will step forward, someone who may be bloodyminded as hell, but who will play the game politically."

"I think the US, Pres Bush and Secretary Rice, think Abbas is that man. The US has engaged in this wishful thinking before, and it has led nowhere good."

I guess the difference is that Jerry Adams and most of the people on both sides of the sectarian divide in Ireland really did want peace after 800 years of war. They really don't like each other, but they really do want peace.
By contrast, the Palestinians really don't.
And that makes all of the difference in the end.
Once you get peace with an Adams, you can keep it, because he wants it. Even if you and he hate each other's living stinking guts.
But you can negotiate a thousand cease fires with people who want the truce only to kill you some more, and you'll never get peace.


65 posted on 12/07/2005 9:01:11 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13

agreed.


66 posted on 12/07/2005 9:12:52 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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To: Just mythoughts

The destruction of Tammuz-1 reactor at Osiraq, Iraq, set back the Iranian nuclear threat for more than 20 years.


67 posted on 12/08/2005 11:45:28 AM PST by Mack Truck
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To: dervish
"The Jews In Israel and in US that care about Pollard are the same ones that are hardliners on terror. They would not advocate for such a trade releasing the terror master Barghouti. "

Right. I have proposed a Pollard for Vanunu trade, but both guys know too much to be released.
68 posted on 12/15/2005 7:25:26 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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