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To: willstayfree
Look guys, I know that you are globalists from your response, but Indians or any other country do not have to live under the laws of the U.S. government, our citizens do.

1. The laws of the United States are not immutable. They can be changed. They ought to be changed to make the United States more business-friendly. That will help put the brakes on outsourcing.

2. I wouldn't call myself a "globalist." I'm a Reaganite, Thatcherite, neo-liberal. That's "liberal" in the Adam Smith sense, not the Jimmy Carter sense.

So in order to assure domestic tranquility we need to support policy which puts American citizens first so that they can provide for themselves and their families and contribute to the tax base.

I agree wholeheartedly. We ought to cut taxes and deregulate employment practices to make American employees more attractive to businesses.

If it costs more for Americans to do a job( because of a lot of regulation) so be it. Pure capitalism is not necessarily in the best interest of our country. You cannot put Americans out of work just so some products or services might be cheaper.

Translation: wealth should be redistributed from me to some other person just because he lives under the same flag as I do. Think winners and losers here: if substandard and/or higher-cost American workers are propped up, they win, and the people who are forced to pay for their services instead of a better alternative lose. It should be fairly obvious that losers vastly outnumber winners in this scenario.

And pure capitalism is always in America's best interests.

There is a trade-off, maybe national security is an issue, maybe a high rate of unemployment is an issue, maybe the reduction of the middle class is an issue as a few examples. It's just dopey to think that if a few investors or corporations benefit the the U.S. as a whole benefits. Generally, America benefits when it's people are employed and are able to participate fully in the economy especially the local economy.

Protectionist polices benefit local producers to the detriment of local consumers. In this case, the producers are American workers whose jobs may have been outsourced. The consumers are the companies that have to pay extra to employ American workers, and the consumers of that company's products, to whom that cost is passed.

The free market tends to move resources into the most efficient position possible. Fight the ocean and you will drown.

16 posted on 12/07/2005 12:58:29 PM PST by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: Gordongekko909
"Translation: wealth should be redistributed from me to some other person just because he lives under the same flag as I do. Think winners and losers here: if substandard and/or higher-cost American workers are propped up, they win, and the people who are forced to pay for their services instead of a better alternative lose. It should be fairly obvious that losers vastly outnumber winners in this scenario."

International trade is a good thing in general, but with limits and restrictions. I don't understand the modern fascination with it all; it's taken on a life of its own with no apparent benefit anymore except to the corporate owners, CEOs, and shareholders. It's become like an addiction, where eveyone thinks things are going great, but in due time a high price will be exacted.

Our trade with China has produced a massive trade deficit and a huge supply of cheesy, garbage-quality goods flooding our retail stores. This lack of home-manufactured goods saves us a few dollars in the short term, but with these junk goods we end up replacing them more often and losing money in the long run.

More than just hurting American manufacturing and good quality, this global trade fetish creates the perfect scenario for retail giants like WalMart to corner the market on this crap and put smaller retailers out of business. It also allows for low paying jobs for WalMart clerks and makes us reliant on foreign nations for parts, especially regarding electronics. Take a look inside your cell phone and see where all the parts are manufactured, same thing with your computers and most other electronics. Of course this in turn creates a market for mediocrity, where short life, disposable products become the new order of the day so we can "save on repairs".

Now that even our services are being outsourced to foreign countries, I can see the likelyhood of our children graduating from Law School with huge debts, only to discover the job market has been reduced by outsourcing to India. None of this globalism/free trade rot will ultimately benefit America, it has taken us from being number one in nearly every category in the 1960's; (education, standard of living, manufacturing, medicine, etc), to number 2, 3, 16 or lower. This is because we have globalized our country and have spread our wealth and knowledge to every corner of the earth, rather like ..... Communism. The world is one big happy family now, and taking care of the family here at home has been 'outsourced' by greed.

20 posted on 12/07/2005 3:41:05 PM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
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To: Gordongekko909
"Protectionist polices benefit local producers to the detriment of local consumers. In this case, the producers are American workers whose jobs may have been outsourced. The consumers are the companies that have to pay extra to employ American workers, and the consumers of that company's products, to whom that cost is passed."

"Inexpensive" electronics and plastic gadgets from China last about as long as it takes for you to go to the ATM and draw out more money to replace the cheesy, broken product with. We do not gain from manufacturing nothing and importing garbage from China. You seem to think we need global trade to survive and prosper, but history shows the reverse is true.

We became a super-power during and after WWII, when American manufacturing was at its peak. We became reliant on Asian and other foreign manufacturers and products because we became too greedy to pay our own workers what they were worth, and saw a bigger 'bottom line' in using slave labor overseas. We lost our world leadership in producing and manufacturing the best products on earth to our own greed and stupidity.

As the German and Japanese auto manufacturers have so clearly proven, when you make the best quality products you outsell everyone else. Cadillac and Lincoln luxury cars continue to get badly hurt by Lexus, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volvo, because these foreign competitors make far superior quality cars. The same thing goes for American mid-level cars, they get hammered by Toyota, Subaru and Nissan because they won't produce cars of equal quality.

If globalism is so 'good' for America, then why are we getting our behinds kicked by all our foreign competitors, weather in consumer electronics, automobiles, motorcycles, whatever; and why do we run up frightenly high trade deficits with them? All global trade, as it has become today, has done for America is bring us low priced gadgets and things that we don't need, like Nintendo, televisions, stereos, electric can openers. Meanwhile, the prices of things we need for survival continue to skyrocket out of sight. We're just not paying attention to what really matters.

57 posted on 12/08/2005 12:02:39 AM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
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