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To: instantgratification
But the gross Islamophobic generalizations in this thread need to be refuted.

You have consistently made false and misleading statements throughout this discussion. How can you educate others when you are the one here with false ideas?

Men found guilty of rape in Muslim countries face the death penalty.

What you are saying is quite misleading, approaching being outright false. Your statement misleadingly suggested that these boys would face the death penalty for this crime in Pakistan, but they would not. Adultery is punishable by death, but since neither the muslim rapists nor the australian victims in this case were married, that is not relevant here. The crime of rape is punishable by lashes, not death as you claim. Even worse, the crime is rape is nearly impossible to prove, so it is ridiculous to say anyone in pakistan faces any penalty for rape whatsoever.

I never stated that women are not punished for adultery in Islam.

You falsely suggested that only men face the death penalty when women accuse them of rape. As discussed above, the reality is that men in Pakistan face no penalty whatsoever for rape, because the standards of proof are impossible to meet. When these standards are not met, the WOMEN accusers face the death penalty for "slander". Isn't Islamophobia quite justified, when women who complain of rape are themselves the ones who face the death penalty by Islamic courts, and rapists face almost no risk of punishment?

A "radical Islamist" would never admit to intoxication. Alcohol is banned by Islam.

This is definitely false, since the september 11th atrocity loving muslim terrorists were seen drinking heavily in bars with each other on preceeding evenings. Letters from their radical islamist imams encouraged them to live as westerners, including drinking. The sin of drinking alcohol is quite small compared against the islamic religious ideal of committing atrocities against non-muslims. By the way, radical islamists in Iraq are now "intoxicating" each other with crystal methamphetamine before battle.

No - The four witnesses are required to prove adultery, not rape.

This is also false.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture".

False. You are ignorant of pakistani culture, in which tribal councils order rapes. As punishment, daughters may be forcibly handed over to claimants for "marriage", which is defacto rape. Read the testimony of the rapists, which explicitly states their behavior came straight from their culture. Listen to witness testimony, where the rapists were heard to say they were going to teach them gang rape "leb style". Then read the Koran, which explicitly sanctions the rape of non-muslims (slave girls and concubines forcibly taken in battle, etc..)

There are many Muslim countries which are peaceful and even promote women's rights.

Absolutely, totally false. There is nothing that correlates more with violence and oppression of women than the presence of Islam. Islamic countries make rape almost impossible to prove, and subject women accusers to the death penalty for "slander". How is that for women's rights? How an epidemic of gang rape for women's rights?

And as for standing and watching during a gang rape, that happens pretty much everywhere. It's not restricted to Pakistanis. It is common throughout the world. Including in the US. It has nothing to do with Islam and more to do with attitudes toward women.

You're deluding yourself, the only question is why? Why is gang rape more associated with Islam than anything else? Those attitudes towards women which lead to gang rape happen to come directly from Islam. That's why gang rape is epidemic in the muslim dominated areas of France, where any women not in hijab is "fair game". It's also why gang rapes are epidemic in Malmo, a heavily muslim portion of Sweden. And it's why this country shocking gang rape case in Australia was perpetuated by muslims. None of this is a coincidence.
60 posted on 12/09/2005 4:59:24 PM PST by Mount Athos
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To: Mount Athos

Actually, you are mistaken.

I stated that in Pakistan, the punsihment for rape is hanging. Pakistan is run by a military junta. They have pronounced the penalty for rape. That punishment has nothing to do with Islam, nor sharia (and I noted previously that sharia calls for 100 lashes for an unmarried man found guilty of rape).

There have been several cases of hanging of rapists in both Pakistan and neighbouring Iran - the most recent in Pakistan, now under appeal, is the infamous case of a woman gang raped on the order of a village council.

And, I never stated ONLY men face the death penalty. Again, that is your assumption. As an Amnesty International activist and woman, I am very aware of the fact that where sharia is law, women do face the death penalty for adultery - even if they are raped.

So perhaps, before you begin responding, you should read my posts.

As for my comments on intoxication, you are again incorrect. None of the terrorists who were drinking, or living openly with women were devoted to Islam. There is a difference between a terrorist and an Islamist.

Four witnesses are required to prove adultery by a woman against a man under sharia. Google it.

Rape is not permissable in the Koran. And gang rape occurs in every culture. Read about Nanking. Or post WWII Berlin.


107 posted on 12/09/2005 10:35:48 PM PST by instantgratification
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