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Peace on Earth, good will toward men.
KJV Bible, Luke Chapter 2 verses 7-14

Posted on 12/11/2005 4:20:21 PM PST by clee1

7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS:
I urge all FReepers to take a moment to remember the "reason" for the season; our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Merry Christmas to all.

1 posted on 12/11/2005 4:20:21 PM PST by clee1
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To: clee1

Admin, please move this to wherever is appropriate.


2 posted on 12/11/2005 4:21:09 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

Linus: "lights please..."


3 posted on 12/11/2005 4:22:09 PM PST by steveo (No Anchovies? You've got the wrong man, I spell my name steveo...)
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To: steveo

Isn't that the most perfect moment in all tv? What are the odds that could even be MADE in the current climate, let alone get on the air.

Watching Linus in those moments gets my Christmas season in gear.


4 posted on 12/11/2005 4:35:46 PM PST by trimom
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To: clee1

Merry Christmas to you, Cleel, and to all of Freeperdom!


5 posted on 12/11/2005 4:37:23 PM PST by Theresawithanh (You'll get me to stop posting on FR when you wrench my laptop from my cold, dead fingers!)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: trimom

"Peace on earth, goodwill to men"? The Latin has it, `et in terra pax hominibus, bonae voluntatis". Note the Latin genetive case in the words `bonae voltuntatis'.

The phrase properly rendered is,

"PEACE ON EARTH TO MEN OF GOOD WILL".

The angels' words are not universalist, if you get my drift.


7 posted on 12/11/2005 4:56:01 PM PST by elcid1970
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To: RalphRalphenstein

I'm fine with that version. I pulled this from the KJV, which is less PC than most of the rest of the "Bibles" now floating around.


8 posted on 12/11/2005 4:58:51 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: elcid1970

See # 8.

Take a look at some of the other "bibles" now available if you really want to get ticked.


9 posted on 12/11/2005 4:59:49 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

Lovely post, thank you so much and Merry CHRISTMAS!!!!


10 posted on 12/11/2005 5:02:13 PM PST by ladyinred (RIP dear Texas Cowboy, you will be missed.)
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To: trimom; steveo
Actually, I think the best moments comes right before and after Linus's speech; before, when Charlie's poor little tree bends low and symbolically dies under the weight of a single ornament; and after when the pathetic little tree is made resplendent with the decorations from Snoopy's doghouse. It is a parable of death and resurrection; and that, too, is the real meaning of Christmas.
11 posted on 12/11/2005 5:12:42 PM PST by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: clee1
Thank you for the reminder.
Now please forgive me for hijacking this thread, because there may be someone here to point me in the right direction.

I've been looking for the source of a tale. It may possibly be an old Holy Land urban legend. Story is about the shepherds on the first Christmas. Their "specialty" was in the flock they were keeping watch over, "unblemished" or something like that for Temple sacrifice. I remember something about why the Angels made the first announcement to shepherds was to tell them their jobs were going to end. {They now had The Lamb of God}

Anyone ever heard this story?

12 posted on 12/11/2005 5:32:08 PM PST by labette ("To save us all from Satan's power when we had gone astray.")
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To: trimom

Yep, I'm 50-yrs old and it still will bring a tear.


13 posted on 12/11/2005 5:39:22 PM PST by steveo (No Anchovies? You've got the wrong man, I spell my name steveo...)
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To: clee1

Very nice.


14 posted on 12/11/2005 5:41:04 PM PST by Larry Lucido (Boycott taglines that don't say Merry Christmas!)
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To: lightman

Sorry, FRiend. That is a parable of Easter.

Christmas is about the "birth" of the Savior.


15 posted on 12/11/2005 5:57:33 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: labette

I have heard that before.... somewhere.

Lemme do some hunting for it.


16 posted on 12/11/2005 5:58:27 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1
That is a parable of Easter. Christmas is about the "birth" of the Savior.

Somehow I have great difficulty separating the two holydays. Luther said that the cradle of the Christ-child sits in the shadow of the cross.

17 posted on 12/11/2005 6:39:17 PM PST by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: clee1

And the fourth wise man said, "There will be NO peace on earth until there is Glory to God in the Highest"...


18 posted on 12/11/2005 6:43:15 PM PST by Iscool (Start your own revolution by voting for the candidates the media (and gov't) tells you cannot win.)
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To: lightman

True. Christ was born to die for our sins. Gods greatest givet to mankind, and many are either too foolish to see it, or believe Satan when he says "You are not worthy of His sacrifice."

Even the demons of Hell believe, and tremble at the sound of His name.


19 posted on 12/11/2005 7:03:57 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Iscool

Amen, FRiend.

However, there will never be peace on earth. The end of times is foreordained; there will be no peace until we see the peace that passeth all understanding.


20 posted on 12/11/2005 7:05:12 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

Amen. Nice FR home page, by the way.


21 posted on 12/11/2005 7:26:42 PM PST by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: clee1; Northern Yankee; Victoria Delsoul
The very first time I heard this bible passage, when I was very young, was from of this character:

To this day, it still strikes me of one of the warmest and most comforting passages in the bible....much like Linus' blanket.

22 posted on 12/11/2005 7:34:24 PM PST by kstewskis ("Go to your room!"....Dan Rowan to Dick Martin)
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To: labette
Apparently, the story you/I heard is an ancient part of Jewish tradition and folklore. Google the Mt. Olive Press or "shepherds of Bethlehem" for more info.

The Shepherds of Bethlehem and Jewish Tradition
When angels appeared to shepherds near Bethlehem by night, a popular expectation was fulfilled. An early Jewish paraphrase of the books of Moses reflects a popular belief in Bethlehem as Messiah’s birthplace and shepherds as the witnesses. This popular belief, no doubt, sprang from the ancient prophecy in Micah of a ruler “from ancient days” being born in Bethlehem14.

The Jewish paraphrase in question is Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, which translated the Hebrew text of the books of Moses into the language most Jewish people spoke at the time, Aramaic. While translating these books of the Bible, the Targum often added some commentary to the text (the first study Bible?).

In one such comment from Genesis 35:21, the Targum includes a historical note about the place called Migdal Eder (the Tower of the Flock): “The tower of the flock, the place from which it will happen that King Messiah will be revealed at the end of days.”15

What possible significance could this little reference have? The Tower of the Flock is significant for two reasons. First of all, it shows up in the very prophecy of the Messiah that led the Jewish people to expect Messiah to be born in Bethlehem, Micah 4:6 – 5:5. Second of all, the Tower of the Flock is just outside of Bethlehem, on the road to Jerusalem. The tower was used as a watchtower for the area to look for predators that might harm the flocks16. Therefore, there is a tradition from the Targum Pseudo-Jonathan that the Messiah would first be revealed to shepherds near the watchtower of the flock outside of Bethlehem—just as it actually happened!

Not only do we learn from Jewish sources that the Messiah should be first revealed to shepherds, but we also learn that these were no ordinary sheep-herders. A Jewish book called the Mishnah tells us that all sheep raised between Jerusalem and the Tower of Eder were for use in the Temple sacrifices, especially the Passover lambs17. These shepherds were involved in a sacred duty, raising sheep destined for use in the Temple.

While it is true that Jesus was first revealed as Messiah to a lowly bunch of shepherds, these were shepherds with a special significance. They were raising lambs for the slaughter. And to them was given the first glimpse of the lamb of God, who would be slain for the sins of Israel and the world!

Jesus’ whole life placed him prophetically in the role of a sacrificial lamb. More than seven hundred years before he was born, Isaiah said about the Messiah, “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”18 At the very beginning of his ministry, before he ever said a word to anyone about his upcoming death on a Roman cross, John the Baptist said of him, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”19 And at his birth, he was first shown to those who raised lambs for the slaughter.

23 posted on 12/11/2005 7:38:24 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: kstewskis

Me too, FRiend. Yet, for all it's comfort, it still makes me weep - which is out of character for me.

I cannot listen to sacred Christmas carols unless I am alone... too embarassing.

To think of the depths of Gods love for us and the Miracle of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection affects me profoundly.

Then, I get nearly violent at what the secularists are trying to do to Christmas.

Merry Christmas


24 posted on 12/11/2005 7:42:43 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: lightman

Thanks, FRiend.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.


25 posted on 12/11/2005 7:45:18 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1
When you listen to Christmas music, I bet it's as if angels are whispering in your ear, with the message going right down into your heart.

Warmest tidings of Merry Christmas to you, FRiend.

And never, ever, let the secularists steal your blanket!


26 posted on 12/11/2005 8:07:24 PM PST by kstewskis ("Go to your room!"....Dan Rowan to Dick Martin)
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To: clee1
Admin, please move this to wherever is appropriate.

Like the head of the class.

27 posted on 12/11/2005 8:10:03 PM PST by groanup (Shred for Ian)
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To: clee1
"Every time someone says 'happy holidays' and elf dies."

Neal Boortz

28 posted on 12/11/2005 8:11:31 PM PST by groanup (Shred for Ian)
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To: kstewskis; clee1; Northern Yankee

I went to a Catholic school, and I never forgot the lessons I learned in my catechism class. Thanks much for the sweet reminder.


29 posted on 12/11/2005 8:14:43 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: clee1

Beautiful post, clee1! Merry Christmas to you and yours, and to all FReepers everywhere! chena


30 posted on 12/11/2005 8:18:51 PM PST by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: clee1
YYYes! This is the story. Thank you VERY much!
If only this forum were around when I was a kid...Think of the homework I could have skipped.
31 posted on 12/11/2005 8:20:29 PM PST by labette ("Ohh, Tidings of comfort and joy")
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To: clee1; ntnychik; PhilDragoo; bitt; WKB

32 posted on 12/11/2005 8:23:44 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: kstewskis

I felt shivers running up and down my spine.... it's like you're inside my head!

Yep, I can hear the Choir of Angels singing.

Don't worry FRiend; the secularists and leftists (or am I being redundant?) will NEVER steal my salvation, or my Savior.


33 posted on 12/11/2005 8:24:00 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: groanup

I prefer to think of it as "an Angel loses his/her halo", but that I just not possible from earthly influences.


34 posted on 12/11/2005 8:25:57 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: labette

ROFL!

Anytime FRiend. The internet was just a tool of academic eggheads when I was still doing homework. :)

I knew I had heard that story before. As I was thinking about it, it was several years ago when a former minister of my Church was telling us of this. He was a biblical historian/archeologist in his younger days, and was always providing historical tidbits to back up his sermons.


35 posted on 12/11/2005 8:31:13 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

Thank you. My hope is the Administrator
doesn't move this. It is the most important
message of eternity.

Thank you again, for posting this.


36 posted on 12/11/2005 8:33:27 PM PST by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: righttackle44

My priviledge, FRiend, and thank you.

While I agree that this IS and important message, the MOST important message of eternity can be found in John Chapter 3 Verse 16.

Merry Christmas to you.


37 posted on 12/11/2005 8:41:23 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

There is a little bit missing, but it is important.

the traslation above is WEB. Other translations have just a little more reference to whom is blessed.

Luke 2:14

"Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men in whom he is well pleased." (ASV)


Peace to whomever God is pleased with.


38 posted on 12/11/2005 9:04:39 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (I alone, am the chosen one. Because I alone, did the choosing.)
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To: clee1

Thank you for reminding us.


39 posted on 12/11/2005 9:19:35 PM PST by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: Only1choice____Freedom

The only problem with that translation, FRiend, is that there is only one person in the Bible with whom God was "well pleased". That would be Jesus Himself.

I think that God is "pleased" with all people of good will. "Well pleased" is an altogether higher standard.


40 posted on 12/11/2005 9:38:13 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: kstewskis; Victoria Delsoul
Silent Night, Holy Night.

All is calm, all is bright.

Round yon Virgin, Mother and Child.

Holy Infant so tender and mild.

Sleep in Heavenly peace. Sleep in Heavenly peace.

41 posted on 12/12/2005 4:07:00 AM PST by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: clee1
The only problem with that translation, FRiend, is that there is only one person in the Bible with whom God was "well pleased". That would be Jesus Himself.

I think that God is "pleased" with all people of good will. "Well pleased" is an altogether higher standard.

It's the only place where he expressed it to others. Do you think he has been well pleased with Mother Teresa? I would think he was well pleased with Paul's post conversion life.

He has been well pleased with many a man who has lived since then whenever one is saved.

My Father has been well pleased with me at times. And dissappointed as well. I am his child. A parent is well pleased with their children when they do something excellent, not just pleased. Pleased as punch!

42 posted on 12/13/2005 2:49:32 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (I alone, am the chosen one. Because I alone, did the choosing.)
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To: elcid1970
But the text was not originally written in Latin, it was written in Greek. The Greek is ‘Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας. Epi ges: on earth eirene: peace en anthropois: to people (in the dative, for the preposition) eudokias: good will (accusative) The translation that makes the most sense is, in fact, "good will to men". If you had wanted to say "peace to men of good will", then "good will" would modify "men", and thus it would be in the dative to agree with anthropois. But it's not in the dative. It's in the accusative.
43 posted on 12/30/2008 9:48:12 AM PST by solargecko
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To: solargecko

Your reply most interesting. Then how did the koine Greek version of the angels’ salutation become “et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis” as Latin replaced Greek as the lingua franca of Europe, and the Vulgate Bible made Scripture readable to a much larger population?

My view is that the nonuniversalistic greeting in Latin may have been a response to the violent spread of Islam 700-1100 A.D. by large numbers of men clearly not of good will toward their fellow human beings. Wasn’t the Vulgate approved by Rome at about the same point in history?

As for me: love me, love my Savior.


44 posted on 12/30/2008 10:14:36 AM PST by elcid1970 (O Muslim! My cartridges are dipped in pig grease.)
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