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A Republic If You Can Keep It
vanity ^ | 12/12/2005 | Hopeful Patriot

Posted on 12/12/2005 8:53:27 AM PST by HopefulPatriot

A Republic If You Can Keep It
Breathes there the man with soul so dead, 
Who never to himself hath said,
'This is my own, my native land!'

    The ink wasn't dry on the Constitution before one of the Founders who gave it birth expressed his doubts about the ability of Americans to preserve the Constitution that defined the United States. Three Franklin quotes provide the insight needed to understand his cynicism:

    There are no Democrats who understand and are committed to honoring the provisions of the Constitution. The heart and soul of the Democratic Party is socialism. Socialism and democracy are unequivocally and irrevocably incompatible with the Constitution of the United States. Almost by definition, Democrats are at war with the Constitution. Here is what James Madison, the acknowledged "Father of the Constitution" had to say about socialism and democracy:       John Edwards is correct; there are two Americas. The America that is seen by Democrats is an unconstitutional socialistic Utopian democracy. The America seen by Republicans is much harder to define. It is certainly run by a "little intellectual elite in a far distant capital" which barely qualifies it as a 'republic'. Far too many Republicans have become willing to accept or tolerate the premise that socialism is inevitably and inescapably now a permanent part of the American landscape. It also seems that there are increasing numbers of poorly informed or misguided Republican politicians who are embracing socialism for the same reason that Democrats brought socialism to America, to get elected and to stay elected. Socialism is unconstitutional and it is a mistake for Republican politicians to ever believe that conservatives will cheerfully support Republicans that condone socialism. Such a belief contains the seeds for disappointing, if not bitter losses in future elections. Republican politicians have failed to learn the lesson of Ronald Reagan's two landslide victories; conservatives will turn out and vote in over-whelming numbers for a genuinely conservative candidate. And it appears that congressional Republicans have deliberately chosen to ignore the lesson of the 1994 Republican Revolution; conservatives will turn out and vote in over-whelming numbers for a genuinely conservative agenda. Socialisticly leaning Republicans have more than earned the pejorative description of being a "RINO" as an acronym for Republican In Name Only. Regardless of party affiliation, in the absence of term limits, politicians seeking life-long careers in office, use the treasury to buy their constituents' votes for perpetual re-election. Socialism was created by, and is perpetuated by politicians. Socialism becomes their holy grail for re-election. Socialistic politicians effectively convert any republic into a democracy by surrogates.

    In truth, there is a third America. This America is only a memory, or more correctly stated, a mirage that is pictured only in the minds of conservatives. This mirage is an illusion because it no longer exists in the real world. It is the United States that was defined by the Constitution. Conservatives haven't yet been able to consciously admit to themselves or to even consider the possibility that they no longer live in an America that is the USA, but rather a country that is actually the USINO.

    It is a mistake in terminology and a mistake in logical thinking to allow the media or our educational institutions to be portrayed as representing or reflecting the mainstream. Mainstream Americans are conservative and still believe in freedom. The history of the past century is that the media has been nothing more than a propaganda organ for socialism and the Democratic Party. While Democrats and RINO's are the problem, it will be difficult to convince most conservatives of how grave the problem actually is until conservatives begin to recognize and begin to admit to themselves that they no longer live in the USA. The potential to correctly assess and address the problem will only be possible after conservatives begin to consider the possibility that they are actually living in the US In Name Only. There are three reasons why most conservatives have not recognized or noticed the transition from USA to USINO. First the transition was done in incremental steps, at a glacial pace over the course of a century. Secondly, the media has been incredibly successful in using propaganda to conceal the truth. And thirdly, our educational institutions became major players in the propaganda/brain-washing efforts that have successfully camouflaged the changes that have been continuously occurring, but ever so gradually. In lieu of thinking or questioning, Americans educated after 1950 have been conditioned to accept, rather than challenge, information provided by authority figures. This has been especially true when the information has been provided by the government.

Good News and Bad News

    It may not seem like it, but this article has actually been written to share good news with you. The bad news is that Franklin was right; we didn't keep it. The good news is that we can take it back if we respond correctly and with reasonable promptness. A small group of Freepers has devised the best plan ever put forward to restore the Constitution. You do not have to take my word for the quality of the plan. If you really are a Constitutional conservative, you are quite capable of deciding the relative merits of the plan for yourself. Even before you begin to plunge into the details of the plan in eager anticipation of disproving my claim that our plan is the best ever proposed, there are a few things that should be self-evident and some that should be considered:

FreeRepublic's Mission 

    In March of 1999, Jim Robinson clearly stated FreeRepublic's mission. Five years later in March of 2004, Jim Robinson had this to say, "We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc...We are conservative activists dedicated to defending our rights, defending our constitution, defending our republic and defending our traditional American way of life."

    In one of our very first articles, we issued this challenge to every Freeper. Dismayed does not begin to describe our assessment of the response to either our challenge or the response to the series itself. Here is a quick look at the results:

The trend is clearly headed in the wrong direction. With that thought in mind, we have a few comments and some questions: Here are our questions:
  1. Is the over-arching goal of conservatives the restoration of the United States Constitution?
  2. If the best defense is a strong offense, isn't it time for FreeRepublic to go on offense in an effort to restore the Constitution?
  3. If the answer to both questions is yes, should accomplishing FreeRepublic's mission be a continuing discussion for the forum until such time as the mission has been accomplished?
  4. Would having a News/Activism Sidebar section entitled "Mission" or something to that effect, where relevant articles and replies could be linked for extended periods facilitate the discussion and presumably facilitate the accomplishment of the mission?
  5. Would it facilitate the discussion of the mission and therefore presumably facilitate the accomplishment of the mission to have this discussion moderated and possibly archived and/or excerpted to separate the wheat from the chaff?
  6. If there are enough "yes" answers to all of the above questions, I would like to ask the members of the forum if they would be willing to ask the Founder of our Forum, Jim Robinson, would he be willing to act as The Moderator for the FreeRepublic Mission Discussion?
  7. Is there anyone who believes the goal is politically unattainable?
  8. If the goal is not attained, have you considered the alternatives and the consequences?
  9. What does this Freeper want for Christmas? How about the initiation of a serious effort to restore the Constitution?

    This Christmas, our small group of Freepers would like to give every Freeper the opportunity to give their children and their other family members the gift of a lifetime. You can give them FREEDOM, the same freedom that was the birth right of every American from 1789 until 1912, the same freedom for which countless Americans have bled and lain down their lives. Is it too much to ask, Will you take The Pledge?

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!
                        

 

 


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: conservative; constitution; freedom; tinfoilgarbage
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FreeRepublic.com can successfully lead the fight to restore the Constitution. FreeRINO.com would simply preserve the status quo becoming part of the problem.
1 posted on 12/12/2005 8:53:29 AM PST by HopefulPatriot
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To: HopefulPatriot

Beautiful. Thank you.


2 posted on 12/12/2005 8:59:34 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: Santiago de la Vega; Tatze; Irontank; Constitutionalist Conservative; VRWCmember; Mikey; ...
Ping for the The Pledge.
3 posted on 12/12/2005 8:59:39 AM PST by Reaganghost (Democrats are living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.)
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To: HopefulPatriot

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-----
Welcome to the functional essence of Washington, DC.


4 posted on 12/12/2005 9:00:37 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: HopefulPatriot
Bookmark
Bump
5 posted on 12/12/2005 9:02:04 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Tagline Repair Service. Let us fix those broken Taglines. Inquire within(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: HopefulPatriot

Our first article, Free Republic And Freedom, has been viewed 1,616 times.
Our second article, Free Republic's Roots, has been viewed 1,655 times;
The third, Another Ronald Reagan, has only been viewed 747 times.
The most recent, Where's the Instant Replay? has been viewed a paltry 544 times.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. No One likes your message or else you have not commuicated it effectively.


6 posted on 12/12/2005 9:04:00 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: HopefulPatriot
1-6: yes
7: no
8:consequences are unacceptable
9:Abolish the Senate and the IRS and go to a "fair/consumption" tax.
7 posted on 12/12/2005 9:10:55 AM PST by manwiththehands ("Have a RamaHanuKwanzMas" - Glenn Beck (And Merry Christmas!) (... and "Happy Holidays!"))
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To: EagleUSA

And Jefferson warned us that "When the servants of the people are paid on something other than that which the people themselves produce, the roles of master and servant will be reversed."

I remind you of that as a lead-in to this:



(I wrote this a number of years ago when things were NOT going well with the economy. Trust me: They WILL get ugly once again as man -- or certain men -- cannot resist playing God. We continue to violate the universal, immutable laws of economics at our great peril.)

Despite the apparent economic strength of the American economy, history proves that EVERY house of cards eventually comes down. And the higher the card house, the harder the fall when it finally comes. And when it does, the more freedoms we will voluntarily surrender to "restore order." It was the Founders' concern about this historically valid problem which prompted their attempt -- now ignored -- to keep American "money" sound and honest.) Dick Bachert 1998

* * * * * * * *


The Forgotten History of Money
This is the fascinating story of the efforts by certain of the Founding Fathers to prevent the economic distress we find all about us today. It is also a sad story on the basis that modern, "sophisticated" Americans have abandoned the corrective institutional mechanism that remains in place to this day. As you read it, think about a world with many fewer S&L, banking and political scandals and economic problems now considered the norm.

"Blood running in the streets. Mobs of rioters and demonstrators threatening banks and legislatures. Looting of shop and home. Strikes and unemployment. Trade and distribution paralyzed. Shortages of food. Bankruptcies everywhere. Court dockets overloaded. Kidnappings for heavy ransom. Sexual perversion, drunkenness, lawlessness rampant. The wheels of government are clogged, and we are descending into the vale of confusion and darkness. No day was ever more clouded than the present. We are fast verging on anarchy and confusion. (George Washington in a 1786 letter to James Madison, describing the effects of fiat paper money inflation then ravaging America in the pre Constitutional period.)

"The annihilation (of the paper money) was so complete that barber shops were papered in jest with the bills; and sailors, on returning from cruises, being paid off in bundles of this worthless money, had suits made of it, and with characteristic lightheartedness, turned their loss into frolic by parading through the streets in decayed finery which in its better days had passed for thousands of dollars." (Contemporary writer, Breck, 1786)

"Paper money polluted the equity of our laws, turned them into engines of oppression, corrupted the justice of our public administration, destroyed the fortunes of thousands who had confidence in it, enervated the trade and husbandry, and the manufactures of our country, and went far to destroy the morality of out people." (Peletiah Webster, 1786)

At the drafting of the U.S.Constitution, there were many "Friends of Paper Money" present. On August 16, 1787, when the discussion arose on Article 1, Section 8, the proposed wording was this: "The Legislature of the United States shall have the power to...coin money...and emit bills of credit of the United States."

A hot argument ensued on the power to emit bills of credit, which is another way of saying "printing paper money".

Here are the actual words James Madison wrote describing the debate in his diary: "Mr.G.Morris moved to strike out *and emit bills of credit.* If the United States had credit, such bills would be unnecessary; if they had not, unjust and useless.

MADISON: Will it not be sufficient to prohibit the making them a tender? This will remove the temptation to emit them with unjust views. And promissory notes in that shape may in some emergencies be best.
MORRIS: Striking out the words will leave room still for notes of a responsible minister which will do the good without the mischief. The monied interest will oppose the plan of the Government, if paper emissions be not prohibited.
COL.MASON: Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he could not foresee all emergencies, we was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature [Legislature = Congress].
MR.MERCER:(A friend to paper money) It was impolitic...to excite the opposition of all those who were friends to paper money.
MR. ELSEWORTH thought this was a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By withholding the power from the new Government, more friends of influence would be gained to it than by almost anything else...Give the Government credit, and other will offer. The power may do harm, never good.
MR.WILSON: It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the United States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.
MR.READ thought the words, if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelation.
MR.LANGDON had rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words *and emit bills*".

The motion for striking out carried.

Historian George Bancroft later wrote: "James Madison left his testimony that *the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender, either for public or private debts, was cut
off.* This is the interpretation of the clause, made at the time of its adoption by all the statesmen of that age, not open to dispute because too clear for argument, and never disputed so long as any one man who took part in framing the constitution remained alive."

ROGER SHERMAN(1721 1793)should be a name familiar to every American. As familiar as Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Adams. He is the only man to have signed all 4 documents surrounding the formation of the United States of America: The Continental Association of 1772, The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and The United States Constitution. He was a Judge of the Superior Court in New Haven, Connecticut, serving that office with distinction from 1766 until 1788. He served as Treasurer of Yale University from 1765 to 1776. He was renouned for his high intelligence and unswerving honesty and was described by John Adams "as honest as an angel and as
firm in the cause of American independence as Mount Atlas." He served in the U.S.Senate from 1791 until his death in 1793.

Why is Roger Sherman*s name unfamiliar? HE WAS AN ENEMY OF PAPER MONEY!! In 1751, Roger Sherman and his brother William sued James Battle for paying a debt to their shop in New Milford, Connecticut, in depreciating paper currency. Over a period of 15 months, Battle had charged "divers wares and merchandizes" amounting to 129 pounds of what
Sherman assumed were pounds of Connecticut "Old Tenor", a stable currency whose value were well preserved by taxation taking it out of circulation. But Battle assumed the debt was denominated in pounds of ever depreciating Rhode Island currency, tendered in same, and the Shermans took a beating in the payment and sued for recovery of loss by depreciation. The Shermans lost when Battle argued that he was merely following the accepted custom of the day. In 1752, Sherman wrote his book "A Caveat Against Injustice or An Inquiry into the Evils of a Fluctuating Medium of Exchange" indicting UNBACKED PAPER MONEY.

It was this experience that Sherman brought to the Constitutional Convention and prompted him to rise on August 28,1787 and propose new, more restrictive wording to Article 1,Section 10. The standing version under consideration was worded this way: "No state shall coin money; nor grant letters of marque and reprisal; nor enter into any Treaty, alliance, or confederation; nor grant any title of Nobility." (From Madison’s Notes of the Convention) "Judge Sherman and Mr. Wilson moved to insert the words *coin money* the words *nor emit bills of credit, nor make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts* making these prohibitions absolute, instead of making the measures allowable with the consent of the Legislature of the U.S. Mr. Sherman thought this a FAVORABLE CRISIS FOR CRUSHING PAPER MONEY. If the consent of the Legislature could authorize emissions of it, the friends of paper money would make every exertion to get into the Legislature in order to license it." Mr. Sherman*s and Mr. Wilson*s motion was quickly agreed to and became the supreme law of the land.

Some additional quotations to ponder:

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from a want of honor or virtue so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation" (John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 1787)

"I deny the power of the general government to making paper money, or anything else, a legal tender." (Thomas Jefferson)

"You have been doubtless been informed, from time to time, of the happy progress of our affairs. The principal difficulties seem in great measure to have been surmounted. Our revenues have been considerably
more productive than it was imagined they would be. I mention this to show the spirit of enterprise that prevails." (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, June 3, 1790 AFTER the United States Constitution prohibited unbacked paper money at Article 1, Section 10)

"Since the federal constitution has removed all danger of our having a paper tender, our trade is advanced fifty percent. Our monied people can trust their cash abroad, and have brought their coin into circulation." (December 16, 1789 edition of The Pennsylvania
Gazette)

"Our country, my dear sir, is fast progressing in its political importance and social happiness." (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, March 19, 1791)

"The United States enjoys a sense of prosperity and tranquility under the new government that could hardly have been hoped for." (George Washington in a letter to Catherine Macaulay Graham, July 19,1791)

"Tranquility reigns among the people with that disposition towards the general government which is likely to preserve it. Our public credit stands on that high ground which three years ago would have been
considered as a species of madness to have foretold." (George Washington in a letter to David Humphreys, July 20, 1791)

"It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the times which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals.
These were adopted by a permanent rule excluding the use of a perishable medium of exchange, such as certain agricultural commodities recognized by the statutes of some States as tender for debts, or the still more pernicious expedient of PAPER CURRENCY." (Andrew Jackson, 8th Annual Message to Congress, December 5, 1836)

DESPITE WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, THE HISTORICAL RECORD IS CRYSTAL CLEAR: AMERICA WAS TO HAVE BEEN SPARED THE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECTS OF AN UNBACKED PAPER MONEY SYSTEM. MOST OF THE PROBLEMS WE FACE TODAY CAN BE TRACED TO WHAT ANDREW JACKSON CALLED "THE PERNICIOUS EXPEDIENT OF PAPER MONEY".

HISTORY TEACHES THAT AN "ARTIFICIAL" MONEY CREATES AN "ARTIFICIAL" WORLD WHERE THE PRICE FOR SOME ITEM...EVEN OUR MOST POPULAR WELFARE "PROGRAM"...CAN BE DEFERRED TO FUTURE GENERATIONS (OUR $11 TRILLION
NATIONAL DEBT) OR PAID WITH A "MONEY" CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR WHICH ROBS THE VALUE FROM THE MONEY WE MIGHT BE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE IN OUR POCKETS AT THAT MOMENT (INFLATION). AND ONE THING YOU MUST REMEMBER ABOUT INFLATION IS THAT IT IS NOT AN "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY" DESTROYER: THOSE FIRST IN LINE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE NEW MONEY ROLLING OFF THE PRESSES (THE MODERN FRIENDS OF PAPER MONEY) HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEND IT BEFORE IT LOSES ITS VALUE. THE LITTLE PEOPLE (THAT’S US, FOLKS!) FARTHEST DOWN THE LINE ARE THE ONES WHO FEEL THE FULLEST EFFECTS OF THIS DESTRUCTIVE PROCESS.
filename:$history

Dick Bachert


8 posted on 12/12/2005 9:15:24 AM PST by Dick Bachert
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To: HopefulPatriot

This post perfectly describes why I'm a pessimist.

While the 'Pubs may enjoy an electoral majority in a variety of venues, let's face it: If you strip away those among us who are really closet socialists, you're back down to a tiny, ineffective minority.

I honestly believe our slide toward socialism will continue. The only question really is how fast.


9 posted on 12/12/2005 9:24:30 AM PST by Pessimist
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To: PeterPrinciple

I do think we need a well spoken leader. A charismatic fellow who can get everyday Americans on board. We need high school graduates to be able to understand - even those coming out of the indoctrination camps!


10 posted on 12/12/2005 9:56:15 AM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: HopefulPatriot
There are no Democrats who understand and are committed to honoring the provisions of the Constitution.

Ok. That's pretty obvious.

But . . . .

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

So, which party holds the pursestrings now and is rapidly accelerating spending, waste and national debt? Which party rammed through the assault on the First Amendment, and which president happily signed it? Which party and president are suspiciously quiet about the outrageous Kelo decision?

Both of the Big Stupid Government parties suck.

11 posted on 12/12/2005 10:03:13 AM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Dick Bachert
"..freedom that was the birth right of every American from 1789 until 1912.."

It was no accident that freedom began to disappear on an accelerating scale in 1912. Restoring the Constitution is the surest way to end the Federal Reserve, the scourge of free markets.

The discussion of currencies and money goes right over the head of 90+% of modern economists and all Keynesian economists. While the Federal Reserve provides most of the financing and funding that makes socialism possible for a short period of time, the arguments needed to refute it will not be a paramount issue for the over whelming numbers of conservative voters who are willing to vote for freedom.

Freedom is the right to make our own choices. If Social Security and Medicare were the be-all, end-all highly successful programs that Democrats claim, it would not be necessary to make participation in these programs mandatory. And Democrats would not become apoplectic when discussions take to place to make participation in these programs voluntary.

After years of research, I personally, have reached the point where I believe that money is simply too important to entrust to government and have some revolutionary ideas on how to establish a private currency. When the government subverts the Constitution, private enterprise can offer the people a choice. By definition, FREEDOM is the right to exercise our own choices.

12 posted on 12/12/2005 10:05:40 AM PST by HopefulPatriot
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To: Hank Rearden; HopefulPatriot

<< Both of the Big Stupid Government parties suck. >>

Spot on!


13 posted on 12/12/2005 10:14:32 AM PST by Brian Allen (How arrogant need we be to reckon our power-lusting political lumpen somehow superior to theirs?)
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To: PeterPrinciple
[ What we have here is a failure to communicate. No One likes your message or else you have not commuicated it effectively. ]

-OR- Many here are beginning realize they are not small government republicans but big government republicans i.e. government employees.. or other Union members..

Ann Coulter is the leanest meanest RINO exposer of all..

A brief look at many threads (on Ann Coulter) will show overt or covert EXPOSURE.. Annie just drives the RINOs nutz.. The liberals hold their nose when they pass by.. but the RINOs feel naked.. and exposed.. and perform a ritual dance.. Funny if you think about it..

Ann Coulter is a GENIUS.. and national treasure.

14 posted on 12/12/2005 10:26:18 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: Pessimist
"..why I'm a pessimist...If you strip away those among us who are really closet socialists, you're back down to a tiny, ineffective minority."

How then do you explain these?

Socialism is a failed economic model. It will fail every time it is tried. No one can predict the future, but if your view of the future is correct then the future of the United States as a nation is measured in years, not decades. It's about making choices; Ash-heap or Renaissance?

15 posted on 12/12/2005 10:27:51 AM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: HopefulPatriot

Are you familiar with e-gold. Their private currency is up and running. I decided to go on the personal gold standard in Feb. Um, good choice. I used IAU, which is an ETF.


16 posted on 12/12/2005 10:30:37 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: manwiththehands
Good answers are to be expected from a man that has taken The Pledge.

Thank you Sir, and Merry Christmas!

17 posted on 12/12/2005 10:31:39 AM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: Hank Rearden
" So, which party holds the pursestrings now and is rapidly accelerating spending, waste and national debt? Which party rammed through the assault on the First Amendment, and which president happily signed it?..Both of the Big Stupid Government parties suck."

The plan that we are going to present on FreeRepublic is an outline of how we are going to turn ninety years of history, an almost $3 Trillion dollar government, and a country of 300 million people, 180 degrees in less than a decade. We believe that it can be done and we intend to show you how.

18 posted on 12/12/2005 10:38:11 AM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: hosepipe
"Annie just drives the RINOs nutz.. The liberals hold their nose when they pass by.. but the RINOs feel naked.. and exposed.. Ann Coulter is a GENIUS.. and national treasure.

You will not get an argument from us. But the one thing that Ann Coulter and other conservatives have failed to do, it to show you how to defeat some RINO's and at the same time move surviving RINO's to the right. And we will show you how this same strategy can be used to shift almost all Democrats to the right as well.

You are going to enjoy our discussions of the 'Red Shift'.

19 posted on 12/12/2005 10:44:56 AM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: Jack Black
"Are you familiar with e-gold?

Yes, and with most of the others as well. You are definitely on the 'right' track. There are several analogies that you can track down on the internet that illustrate how gold has preserved purchasing power for centuries. History tells us that all currencies periodically return to their intrinsic value.

20 posted on 12/12/2005 10:51:26 AM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: HopefulPatriot
The plan that we are going to present on FreeRepublic is an outline of how we are going to turn ninety years of history, an almost $3 Trillion dollar government, and a country of 300 million people, 180 degrees in less than a decade. We believe that it can be done and we intend to show you how.

Let's do it. As long as "the plan" isn't "reelect Republicans", I'm in. 'Cause that's not working.

21 posted on 12/12/2005 10:53:29 AM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: HopefulPatriot
"The plan that we are going to present on FreeRepublic is an outline of how we are going to turn ninety years of history, an almost $3 Trillion dollar government, and a country of 300 million people, 180 degrees in less than a decade. We believe that it can be done and we intend to show you how."

So do I!

Semper Fi

22 posted on 12/12/2005 11:05:18 AM PST by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: HopefulPatriot
[ You will not get an argument from us. But the one thing that Ann Coulter and other conservatives have failed to do, it to show you how to defeat some RINO's and at the same time move surviving RINO's to the right ]

WRONGO spongo.. Exposing them is stripping them naked..
Thats what Ann DOES.... AND it is the proper tactic..

Did I say shes a genius. Oh! well..

What IF republican congressmen/women STOPPED using the word democrat BUT used the word SOCIALIST instead.. on the floors of their chambers and on TV.. private consultaions everywhere..

True... thats the last you would ever see any republican on main stream TV.. BUT.. they then would be a threat.. Most Americans don't know they have swallowed socialism and are pregnant with socialistic ideas.. Most ALL of them..

Nope you're WRONG, Ann Coulter has their meddle and sticks the knife right where it belongs.. in the BABY.. The baby of socialism that America is carrying RIGHT NOW.. Lady Liberty has been RAPED and is pregnant..

23 posted on 12/12/2005 11:07:47 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: Pessimist

Yes, I agree. And will there be any push back from the Constitutional defenders before the apogee is reached? That's still a question. My good friend and I who have discussed this topic with over many campfires and beers feels that no, definately no push back. Sheeple like acquiesence to whatever comes next (socialized medicine?). The outrage over the New London decision was short lived. (Kudos to Sean Hanity for going to the city in Florida where greed heads want to destroy an entire neighborhood.)

The Free State Wyoming and Free State (New Hampshire) project are also interesting. I agree with the criticism that there is no hope of holding the line in New Hampshire. Too surrounded by socialist thinkers, to many Mass voters moving to the border bedroom communities.

But Wyoming is an interesting play. It has the smallest population of any state, is arguably the freest and most libertarian of any state, and has some small counties that could be taken control of with enough new people moving and and harmonizing with the prevailing local trends.

It would be great to create one alternative in the USA to do things like abolish most government programs. Run with a miniscule and volunteer set of public officials, etc.

Boston T. Party wrote the book Molon Labe, which while very fanciful, outlines such a strategy. Also a web search for Free State Wyoming will show the discussion group.

That's the only semi-organized strategy I see that seems likely to succeed. Other than the second coming of Ronald Reagan, or the man on the white horse.

All things considered I think the pale horse may be the more likley one we'll see a rider on soon.


24 posted on 12/12/2005 11:08:06 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: HopefulPatriot

I'm with you. Please add me to your ping list.


25 posted on 12/12/2005 12:07:16 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: Hank Rearden

"Both of the Big Stupid Government parties suck."

You summed up your entire post with that last sentence.

And

In my opinion, nailed the real problem on the head.


26 posted on 12/12/2005 12:18:13 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: An Old Man
"The plan that we are going to present on FreeRepublic is an outline of how we are going to turn ninety years of history, an almost $3 Trillion dollar government, and a country of 300 million people, 180 degrees in less than a decade. We believe that it can be done and we intend to show you how."

The Constitution is far too important to let slip from our hands. I'm in, too!

27 posted on 12/12/2005 12:32:36 PM PST by USMC79to83
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To: Jack Black
"...I agree with the criticism that there is no hope of holding the line in New Hampshire. Too surrounded by socialist thinkers, to many Mass voters moving to the border bedroom communities..."

As a New Hampshire native, I'm dismayed that this appears to be so - I love the "Live Free or Die State." But there is no escaping the Socialist mindset in VT, MA, ME (and Quebec).

"...a web search for Free State Wyoming will show the discussion group...

I've adopted the West as my new home and this is the best news I've heard in quite a while. THANKS!

28 posted on 12/12/2005 12:45:06 PM PST by USMC79to83
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To: Jack Black
"Free State Wyoming, Free State (New Hampshire) and it would be great to create one alternative in the USA to do things like abolish most government programs.."

These are the last ditch efforts after everything else has failed and before the second Revolutionary War breaks out. If these things happen, it will mean that all the battles to restore the Constitution will have been lost. It may be true that the socialists have been winning, but make no mistake, we certainly don't intend to lose and we will never surrender.

Americans still want to be free. When a group of candidates offers them a choice, the American people will choose freedom. Our plan will show you how FreeRepublic can be instrumental in recruiting candidates for office, yes just like "Another Ronald Reagan". We believe that we can recruit candidates made from the same mold as Ronald Reagan and cut from the same cloth as the Founders. Success not only breeds success, but it also intimidates the losers and the losers' clones.

Most Americans can still tell the difference between freedom and a free lunch. Part of the job of our candidates and part of the task for FreeRepublic is the clear concise definition of what Americans can expect if they depend on themselves versus what everyone should expect as government dependents. The problem isn't that the socialists have better arguments; the problem is that nobody has been presenting our arguments at all. Adding insult to injury, the media and our educational institutions have successfully demonized everybody that has even tried.

29 posted on 12/12/2005 12:50:34 PM PST by Reaganghost (Democrats are living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.)
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To: USMC79to83; Leatherneck_MT
"The Constitution is far too important to let slip from our hands. I'm in, too!"

Thank you Gentlemen! Democrats and Liberals were never understand why it took a marine to launch Toys for Tots..

30 posted on 12/12/2005 1:03:08 PM PST by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: HopefulPatriot

Merry Christmas and thanks for the invitation. I've no time now, haven't been on Free Republic for weeks. I'll read when I can spare a few minutes.


31 posted on 12/12/2005 1:24:56 PM PST by fire and forget
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To: HopefulPatriot

I like this one also.

http://www.libertydollar.org/


32 posted on 12/12/2005 1:58:37 PM PST by ol painless (ol' painless is out of the bag)
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To: Reaganghost
Well I'm with you on your goals. I think you should just go ahead and spill the beans on the plan at this point. Too much buildup is hookey. This isn't a pyramid scheme after all.

Free Republic is a wonderful cultural treasure for conservatives. But the focus and POWER that we had early on (I've been here since 1998) has largely disapated. This happens. It's unfortunate in some ways but its also a measure of success. Jim has elected to have a very, very broad based community and allow the widest possible discussions to take place, with only some minimal rules. It's amazing that it has worked so well.

Maybe you should for a Yahoo board to do what you want. Thats what Boston T. Party is doing with the FSW. (In fact there are several, one for 'lurkers' , one for people who have signed on).

FR is *NOT* about restoring the Constitution as a sort of mission (no matter what the outdated mission statement says) IMHO. It's about a building a place for conservatives to chat, about everything.

Here is a random list of FR topics:
Key facts about Stanley Tookie Williams case
Riots Erupt in Australia
Anti-Arab rioters smash cars, windows in Sydney
DA must prove DeLay purposely avoided fund ban
Italy tape: 'Joy' over beheading
Police Find Assault Weapon Near Supreme Court
Statement by the President [on Tueni assassination
Whirlpool to lay off 730 U.S. workers [Mexico Gains]
Was California Gov. Arnold ... Tookie Williams?
EU Official Calls for End to Death Penalty
Immigration booming as Congress grapples with border
Possible White House FREEP
Minutemen at the Polls
British Oil-Fire Cloud Spreads to France
Bush Says 30,000 Iraqis Killed in War
Crips Founder Williams Denied Clemency
Gang killings up, number of investigators down in LA
Warner Disney
Saudi Businessman Donates Millions to Georgetown and
Governor Declines To Stop Williams Execution
Bomb Ripped Apart Vehicle Carrying Canadian
Judge throws out Yosemite death lawsuit
USSC TO DECIDE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF TEXAS REDISTRICTING
Italian Player Accused of Fascist Salute (Drudge)
Japan Brokerage Must Compensate for Error
ESR's Tenth Annual Person of the Year
Donkeys vs. Christians
Investigation and Indictment of John F. Kerry
Illegal Alien Day Laborers in Shirlington
Report: Israel prepares to strike Iran
La. Governor Postpones New Orleans Vote
Vote for Alex (Freep this Poll-Vote for Little Girl
Death of an American City
A Serial Killer Shakes Up a City and a Cultural Myth
Left, Lefter and Leftest (Nemesis following hubris in
Economics for dummies
The Truth About the Chronicles of Narnia

What do you see? Lots of tabloid news, lots of celebrity news, book review, movie reivews, international news, business news. What you don't see is any particular focus on anything like restoring the republic. That might be why you come here but objectively it's now what this place is about anymore.

I actually responded to a thread on Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and said something like "can't you do this elsewhere? what does this have to do with politics?" But its not my board to make those calls. Ditto the sports threads, daily vanity threads, pray for Bush threads, follow the talk radio threads, all this and more happily exists here.

This place is a lot more like Google News than any focused goal driven group. If that's what you want I think you need to go elswhere (and drop in here once in a while).

As I said, from what you've said I am broadly in support of your concerns and goals. Please accept this as the constructive criticism I intend it to be.

33 posted on 12/12/2005 2:22:12 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
Jack, I'm dissapointed :<(

You didn't put this on your list "Spokane County Assessor Ralph Baker is sending a clear message to anyone with questions or complaints about their property assessments: Stay home .

Semper Fi

34 posted on 12/12/2005 3:18:56 PM PST by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: Jack Black
"Well I'm with you on your goals. I think you should just go ahead and spill the beans on the plan at this point. Too much buildup is hookey...Free Republic is a wonderful cultural treasure for conservatives. But the focus and POWER that we had early on (I've been here since 1998) has largely disapated."

Your insight is excellent. Some of your other comments are also very salient, "..place for conservatives to chat..What you don't see is any particular focus on anything like restoring the republic." And, "If that's what you want I think you need to go elswhere (and drop in here once in a while..from what you've said I am broadly in support of your concerns and goals. Please accept this as the constructive criticism I intend it to be."

Our group considered everything you said, including your recommendation. We decided to make our case on FreeRepublic for several reasons:

As for the stringing out of the material, there are several reasons why we have chosen to do it, and a couple of reasons why it absolutely necessary. If you have paid attention to the number of views of articles posted on FreeRepublic, you have undoubtedly noticed that some can produce more than 100,000 views while others may produce less than a hundred. Some articles similar to some of these were published on another site with average hits in the high hundreds or low one thousand range without producing a critical mass reaction. We don't want to be a one shot flash in the pan; we want to generate a sustainable reaction that it will see itself through to completion. One of the prior articles alluded to our main reason for not presenting too much in a single article.

Slogans and sound bytes are great for selling Christmas cards, "When you care enough to send the very best," or winning elections, "It's the economy stupid." We admit that we aren't salesmen, but we do believe that to change 90 years of history in less than a decade and pursuade hundreds of millions of people to end socialism before socialism ends the United States is going to take more than a slogan or a sound byte. We are going to have to present a truly great debate that carries the day.

We hope you will join us in this effort and invite you and every Freeper to conisder taking The Pledge.

35 posted on 12/12/2005 4:22:16 PM PST by Reaganghost (Democrats are living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross; 4CJ; A CA Guy; abigail2; Alia; alisasny; an amused spectator; AnAmericanMother; ...

Ping!


36 posted on 12/12/2005 4:52:54 PM PST by writer33 (Rush Limbaugh walks in the footsteps of giants: George Washington, Thomas Paine and Ronald Reagan.)
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To: writer33

Thanks for the ping...interesting stuff to read. I really NEED to learn more about the roots of FR. I just signed on and started talking and it's interesting to see where we came from and where we're going!


37 posted on 12/12/2005 4:58:34 PM PST by LUV W (QUITTING IS NOT AN EXIT STRATEGY IN IRAQ...)
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To: writer33

@23


38 posted on 12/12/2005 5:00:42 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: HopefulPatriot
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

People voting themselves money is the basis of the democrat party. So, as I see it, they've been in favor of destroying our republic for some years now.

39 posted on 12/12/2005 5:00:45 PM PST by b4its2late (The only substitute for good manners is faster reflexes.)
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To: HopefulPatriot

bttt


40 posted on 12/12/2005 5:04:51 PM PST by JDoutrider (Islam uses the same symbol I have on my outhouse door! Tell ya anything?)
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To: hosepipe

Sorry.


41 posted on 12/12/2005 5:04:54 PM PST by writer33 (Rush Limbaugh walks in the footsteps of giants: George Washington, Thomas Paine and Ronald Reagan.)
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To: HopefulPatriot; writer33

Good article, thanks. And thanks for reminding us what FR is all about. :-)


42 posted on 12/12/2005 6:32:20 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: EagleUSA
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

Jerry Agar had an interesting topic on his radio show today... A MO state legislator wants to turn I-70 into a toll road. It seems that the interstate is falling apart. Interestingly enough, it seems that the gasoline and trucking taxes have collected more than enough money to fix the interstate. It seems that the state has used that money for other things. So, since there's no money left to actually do what the state is supposed to do with the money, they need to find other sources of revenue. It's a shame that the rules of the private sector don't seem to apply to the government. Because what the state's done with those funds would be criminally and civilly punishable, and the people behind the illegal spending could expect a "perp-walk."

Mark

43 posted on 12/12/2005 6:53:45 PM PST by MarkL (I swear by my pretty floral bonnet that I will end you! (I just saw "Safe" again last night!))
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To: writer33

Bump.


44 posted on 12/12/2005 7:02:38 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham
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To: PeterPrinciple
Because the message is not resonating with any but a handful.

The reason for that is simple...these posts sort of sound okay, but are just platitude filled day dreams.

45 posted on 12/12/2005 7:29:36 PM PST by nopardons (,)
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To: EagleUSA
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

Something they couldn't do before the imposition of the income tax.

46 posted on 12/12/2005 7:30:21 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality) - "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein)
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To: HopefulPatriot
It's ILLEGAL for private citizens and that includes companies ) to print what they claim is legal tender.
47 posted on 12/12/2005 7:33:12 PM PST by nopardons (,)
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To: HopefulPatriot; Jackknife

OHHH YOU have GOT to read THIS:


48 posted on 12/12/2005 7:36:38 PM PST by The Drowning Witch (Sono La Voce della Nazione Selvaggia)
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To: HopefulPatriot

I really like this post. I agree with almost all of it.

But I have been thinking lately about Freedom.

I don't think Freedom is something you can GIVE anyone. Its not a GIFT. Its a GOAL to be EARNED.

The Founders of our Republic EARNED their Freedom - with their tears, toil and sweat. Our philosophical forefathers fought for that Freedom in countless wars since then.

We, with the Brits, GAVE Freedom to Europe after WW2. WE GAVE Freedom to them AGAIN after the collapse of the Evil Empire. They have squandered it.

Are the French, Germans, etc, REALLY Free?? Or they merely like too many Americans today - individuals who merely enjoy the fruits of Freedom without understanding the cost and value of it? People who are unwilling or incapable of defending what was given them because they didn't really earn it themselves and hence have no appreciation of its value.

The people who founded our Republic had generations of experience here in America of running representative government. To an extent that experience was also brought here by THEIR forefathers from England.

Different ethnic groups who came here later, for the most part, accepted, learned and treasured that Freedom from being taught about the foundations of our Republic, learning from experiences with Native born Americans, and being willing to WORK - HARD - so that that Freedom could be passed on to their sons and daughters.

Look at what a mess South America is. Look at the endless succession of failed "Republics" in France.

Why the difference between THEIR experience and ours? Genetics and climate? I doubt it.

I think the difference lay in social structures. The South American Revolutions for the most part merely exchanged overlords. The average peon or peasant was just as wretched after their revolutions as before - they merely exchanged masters. This was due to a lack of any historical understanding or value of real Freedom.

The French had no experience of republican government - unlike the English and their settlers here. Where OUR revolution was based on the premise that men enjoyed rights granted by God, theirs was based on a belief that the State was responsible for granting rights.

I am very worried about America and its future and very concerned about our so-called allies and the cowardly mass of contented socialist cattle they have become. Too many of our fellow Americans have become like them.


49 posted on 12/12/2005 7:55:52 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: HopefulPatriot

Bookmarked and bumped.


50 posted on 12/12/2005 8:15:34 PM PST by SeaBiscuit (God Bless all who defend America and Friends, the rest can go to hell.)
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