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Judge Rules Against 'Intelligent Design'
yahoo news ^

Posted on 12/20/2005 8:16:05 AM PST by GSlob

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Poor plaintiffs will have to evolve.
1 posted on 12/20/2005 8:16:06 AM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

HOMESCHOOL!!!!


2 posted on 12/20/2005 8:19:47 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; GrandEagle; Right in Wisconsin; Dataman; ..
ping


Revelation 4:11Intelligent Design
See my profile for info

3 posted on 12/20/2005 8:20:43 AM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: GSlob
"The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy," Jones wrote.

The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by a judge who imposed his own bias upon the will of those elected to run the schools.

4 posted on 12/20/2005 8:20:58 AM PST by Kenny Bunkport
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To: GSlob

Science is ordinarily backed up with facts... and if facts cannot incontrovertibly prove that evolution is the only possibility, then failure to present other theories is akin to censorship.


5 posted on 12/20/2005 8:22:27 AM PST by AbeKrieger (Islam is the virus that causes al-Qaeda.)
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To: GSlob; Admin Moderator

Too late. Active thread here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543993/posts


6 posted on 12/20/2005 8:23:33 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: GSlob
"The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy," Jones wrote. "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

What a piece of work this judge is.

7 posted on 12/20/2005 8:24:02 AM PST by plain talk
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To: GSlob

I'm not surprised. Diappointed, but not surprised. The super-legislature strikes again, saving everyone from even the hint of God.


8 posted on 12/20/2005 8:24:13 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at His footstool; He is holy. Ps 99:5)
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To: GSlob

Sloppy typing. It is the defendants who have to evolve, not the plaintiffs.


9 posted on 12/20/2005 8:24:18 AM PST by GSlob
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To: Kenny Bunkport

"The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by a judge who imposed his own bias upon the will of those elected to run the schools."

Pretty funny. That whole board has been replaced by the voters. Guess you're wrong.


10 posted on 12/20/2005 8:24:36 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: GSlob
Said the judge: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

Because ID is really about money.

11 posted on 12/20/2005 8:27:30 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: GSlob

How soon can we nominate Judge Jones for the Supreme Court? Tomorrow won't be soon enough...


12 posted on 12/20/2005 8:27:37 AM PST by LaMudBug (Goldwater, Regan, Rush and now Bush...)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
Said the judge: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

Evidently they subscribe to a religion that teaches that it's OK to lie to infidels.

13 posted on 12/20/2005 8:28:30 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: AbeKrieger

As a biology teacher, it is frustrating to be AFRAID to mention God/Creation/ID when you are discussing evolution. Many kids in my classes were very opposed to hearing about evolution, and they wanted to talk about what they believed. Of course, our entire curiculum was built around evolution as a foregone conclusion. But, I really felt (and still feel) that denying the teachers the freedom to allow other ideas to be discussed certainly IS a form of censorship. And I rarely utter that word since I think it is totally overused.
BTW I am a Christian, but I don't think we nec understand the creation story in the Bible as written, so the ideas in evolution aren't a hot button issue for me. I just honestly think that we have people who are literally trying to supress any other viewpoint. Where is the diversity?
susie


14 posted on 12/20/2005 8:29:55 AM PST by brytlea (I'm not a conspiracy theorist....really.)
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To: GSlob

The judges will eventually follow the cultural change, as they usually do. They only seem to like being out front when it comes to killing babies.


15 posted on 12/20/2005 8:33:07 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: brytlea

Thanks for that bit of common sense.


16 posted on 12/20/2005 8:33:08 AM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: GSlob

On the first day of class the teachers should put near the entrance a display consisting of a rock and some slime and a heat lamp and just title it "The First Human", never saying a word and just leave it there the whole year.


17 posted on 12/20/2005 8:36:09 AM PST by right right
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To: steve-b
A funny blog on Behe is here.

CAUTION: adult language.

18 posted on 12/20/2005 8:36:27 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: wallcrawlr

Every once in awhile I do that.;)
susie


19 posted on 12/20/2005 8:37:26 AM PST by brytlea (I'm not a conspiracy theorist....really.)
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To: wallcrawlr
So when I stand up and say "I don't believe in this THEORY", I will be told "I must believe"...The state says it is so.

I got kicked out of Catholic School because I said that "being Catholic" was not sufficient reason for voting for Kennedy....based on THEIR premise that a Catholic is a automatically a better person. I don't even want to talk about what they thought of Jews!! 1961

20 posted on 12/20/2005 8:40:56 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: GSlob
Memo to local schools from Federal Judiciary: Please forward all your daily lesson plans for approval.

Look at the fine job the Federal Courts did improving local schools with their busing plans. This is more help from the same mindset.

21 posted on 12/20/2005 8:41:47 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: GSlob

Biology class......Let's raise Intelligent design to the ranking of a Philosophy class.


22 posted on 12/20/2005 8:42:04 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: GSlob

Excellent!


23 posted on 12/20/2005 8:42:21 AM PST by blowfish
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To: GSlob

the school district should just ban the teaching of anything related to how the world, animals and people are thought to have come to be.


24 posted on 12/20/2005 8:43:05 AM PST by conservative physics
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To: AbeKrieger
and if facts cannot incontrovertibly prove that evolution is the only possibility, then failure to present other theories is akin to censorship.

Never took a science class, did you?

25 posted on 12/20/2005 8:43:33 AM PST by blowfish
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To: mlc9852

Absolutely!


26 posted on 12/20/2005 8:44:48 AM PST by lilylangtree
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To: GSlob
This is fantastic news! It's great to see a Bush appointed judge make the correct decision to keep whack-o's from forcibly inserting silly superstitions and charlatan hoaxes into science class over the common wisdom of the science teachers. hooray!!!
27 posted on 12/20/2005 8:46:49 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: brytlea
God Bless and Merry Christmas!

It's refreshing to have it stated with such simple reason - The only folks that get hurt by mention of God and/or Creationism are those who make their living in the study of evolution. Hearing that not everyone buys it as a stand-alone theory damages nobody. Some would say it hurts our kids scientifically, but I fail to see how it makes kids stupid - if they want to pursue scientific careers, the knowledge of opposing viewpoints will not eat the scientific aptitude from their brains. My belief in God does not take my ability to use math or the scientific method away from me. Of course, I would not likely pursue evolution as a study, but that is not the scientific area that keeps us technologically competitive. It is more akin to the liberal arts in that it makes one feel happy to have the information, but is not a specific boon to Mankind.

28 posted on 12/20/2005 8:46:51 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: wallcrawlr

The underlying assumption of the court seems to be that ID proponents are driven exclusively by faith, and that a scientific consideration by anyone with faith is not only impossible, but is an oxymoron.

I cannot say, because I am guilty, but as a scientist I believe ID is demonstrable.

I will bring up a previous post on the geologic record if you like.


29 posted on 12/20/2005 8:48:41 AM PST by BuglerTex (Thank God for our molten core and our large moon)
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To: BuglerTex

certainly.


30 posted on 12/20/2005 8:51:22 AM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: shuckmaster
An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns

Not according to the ToE....

31 posted on 12/20/2005 8:56:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: brytlea

The judge said the ID'ers have "bona fide and deeply held
beliefs which drive their scholarly endeavours", he did
not say ID is a bad idea...he just said he felt that the
school board was trying to inject religion, and had lied
about their intentions...

Doesn't the fact that people are in arms cuz their theory
is challenged tell you something?
What it tells me is that there are some deeply held beliefs
that are being challenged. Is it possible that you as a
teacher could talk about problems with evolutionary theory
without introducing any talk about (shudder!) the possibility
of a Creator(man or God, or alien)...

An interesting question....if mankind learns enough to be
able to "create" a life form, would it display any evidence
that it was created, or since "it" would have to run on
known physical laws, could someone who discovered the life
form, say in the unconnected future, proclaim it had evolved?

Another interesting question...could mankind evolve enough
such that life can be created by us? If so, does that prove
that life can be created, and doesn't HAVE to evolve by
itself?

Finally, could an alien entity, advanced in biological
technology have created life on this planet?


32 posted on 12/20/2005 8:58:01 AM PST by Getready ((fear not...))
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To: GSlob

Darwin's Black Box should be required reading for this judge. But then he is probably incapable of understanding it.


33 posted on 12/20/2005 8:59:22 AM PST by Mogollon
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To: GSlob

There's only two possibilities.

Either life has always existed or it spontaneously generated.

Somehow "scientists" have picked one of the two as being rational.

To me they are both pretty incredible options. I pick the first one. God always existed.

When someone can show me an example of life sponteously generating I might consider changing my mind. Till then its not science its speculation.


34 posted on 12/20/2005 9:01:01 AM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: shuckmaster
"whack-o's"

Why the apostrophe? Maybe you should be more concerned with English classes.
35 posted on 12/20/2005 9:01:03 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: AbeKrieger

The evos count on censorship!


36 posted on 12/20/2005 9:01:31 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

And evolution isn't? Where will those grants come from?


37 posted on 12/20/2005 9:02:16 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: brytlea
I think that that is why the evolution debate is considered such an agenda by the scientists by many. If you can hardly discuss it when the KIDS bring it up and can't mantion the "G" word, then it's more than just about "teaching science correctly". It's just not realistic to restrict the subject matter in any one subject to only the sublect being taught. Like you can't discuss anything not Social Studies in the SS class or if it's not Math, you can't touch it in math class. I remember discussing alchemy in Chemistry and no one is having meltdowns about that. Sometimes you can get into really intersting discussions and learn a lot by going off topic *occasionally*. I also think it helps develop critical thinking skills.

I agree about you opinion of the creation story. It's so often criticized for being "inaccurate" but really, just how much info can be put into a couple chapters that deal with such a broad and complex topic. I think all in all it's a pretty good summary of what happened and has much more scientific support than a lot of scientists give it credit for.

38 posted on 12/20/2005 9:03:21 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: GSlob
Well, I wonder how it would have gone if the referendum were rephrased as "Allah may have created the world."?
39 posted on 12/20/2005 9:03:58 AM PST by SteveSpeaking
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To: Getready
Finally, could an alien entity, advanced in biological technology have created life on this planet?

Then who created the alien entity? And why haven't we intercepted any of these aliens old T.V. reruns in the SETI project. In the end there is one ultimate Creator and nothing was created except by Him.

40 posted on 12/20/2005 9:06:04 AM PST by Mogollon
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To: mlc9852
The evos count on censorship!

No, they just count on religion being taught in the churches, temples, mosques, Scientology camps and Branch Davidian compounds where it belongs - not in public schools.
41 posted on 12/20/2005 9:08:37 AM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
And that is why more and more are homeschooling. Homeschoolers generally do much better than those locked away in government brainwashing institutions anyway.
42 posted on 12/20/2005 9:11:29 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Getready
However, the kids WANTED to talk about God. Each and every time we studied evolution. I fail to understand how talking about what some people believe along with the scientific evidence for evolution is a problem.

You said:Doesn't the fact that people are in arms cuz their theory is challenged tell you something?

Yes, it does. The folks who want only evolution taught have certainly been up in arms over the mention of aything else. So, it does indeed tell me something.

Thanks for your post.

susie

43 posted on 12/20/2005 9:17:18 AM PST by brytlea (I'm not a conspiracy theorist....really.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Unfortunately there are alot of subjects kids learn about where religion and religious belief do and SHOULD come up. Interestingly, our founding fathers (who I presume were way smarter than I) did not seem to have a problem with God in the public square.
susie


44 posted on 12/20/2005 9:22:16 AM PST by brytlea (I'm not a conspiracy theorist....really.)
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To: brytlea
I just honestly think that we have people who are literally trying to supress any other viewpoint.

Good point!

If both science and religion are about 'truth', how can anyone expect to understand what is and isn't 'true' if we only get to hear one side of the story?

I see nothing wrong with teaching evolution in science and having a theology course to teach ID.

The former could dissect the mechanics of life while the latter expounded on the miracle of it.

Having one side trying to completely eradicate any mention of the other does students a HUGE disservice, IMHO!

45 posted on 12/20/2005 9:23:38 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am NOT a 'legal entity', nor am I a *person* as created by `law`!)
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To: wallcrawlr

Wallcrawler - Sorry, Igot caught in a conference call. Here is a previous post, excuse the vanity:

The polarization disturbs me as well, both as a Believer, and an oath-sworn scientist seeking the truth.

4,500+ million years ago there is light

3,500 million years ago - Precambrian (began), ooze, photosynthetic life appearing late

600 million years ago - Cambrian, explosion of marine life forms, huge variety

425 million years ago - Silurian, explosion of land life forms, first plants

405 million years ago - Devonian, first seed plants (in only 20 mil yr! We gardeners appreciate the difference), first amphibians

220 million years ago - Triassic, dinosaurs

181 million years ago - Jurassic, first flowering plants, birds

135 million years ago - Cretaceous, monocotyledons, oak and maple forests, Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rocky Mountains the extinction of the dinosaurs as a finale. The K/T discontinuity world-wide.

65 million years ago - Tertiary, 35 mil yrs Oligocene Epoch appearance of most moderen genera of mammals and monocotyledons

0.004 million years ago civilizations learn to write, all over the world at about the same time.

0.002 million years ago philosophy is advanced enough to describe the New Covenant in The best Greek of the New Testament, the Book of Hebrews, to Jews in Rome. Would that our society were as well read.

0.002 million years later Free Republic provides a forum, as the Nation Under God is bringing Liberty to the Cradle of Civilization and the birthplace of Abraham, the site of Daniel's vision of the Ancient of Days the repository of the treasures of the first Temple, the captivity of Israel.

Life on this earth, on this planet with a molten core, a magnetic field, plate tectonics ( understood in only our lifetimes), distributed continents and a single moon so large as to cause our oceans to breathe, has developed in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hour of the clock of the firmament.

And yes, I am still stubborn and stiff-necked. And I have no right to be here, but for prevenient grace.


46 posted on 12/20/2005 9:24:07 AM PST by BuglerTex (Thank God for our molten core and our large moon)
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To: GSlob


JUDICIAL ACTIVISM


47 posted on 12/20/2005 9:26:35 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: brytlea

I don't think we nec understand the creation story in the Bible as written, so the ideas in evolution aren't a hot button issue for me. I just honestly think that we have people who are literally trying to supress any other viewpoint. Where is the diversity?

Biology class is for biology. Students should be taught science. Scientific theories make testable predictions about the world we live in. Science helps us understand our natural world as it is. Scientists use science to understand biology and disease, develop new treatments and to predict where the natural world is headed. In schools, students should be trained in scientific thinking to participate in this endeavor.

Understanding evolution is fundamental to science. Why do bacteria develop resistance to antibiotics? Why do viruses affect some species but not others? Why does sickle cell trait reduce likelihood of malaria infection and therefore become a selected trait?

Belief in a creator does not constitute scientific thinking and will not help solve biological problems in the world we inhabit. I have no objection to teaching creationism or ID or alien origins or ghosts or exorcism or any other fantastical explanation of the world- in homes, in church, or in a private retreat.

But please leave science classes to science.


48 posted on 12/20/2005 9:31:24 AM PST by WritetheNews
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To: blowfish
Never took a science class, did you?

If my statement is wrong, then no I have not.

49 posted on 12/20/2005 9:35:37 AM PST by AbeKrieger (Islam is the virus that causes al-Qaeda.)
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To: GSlob
It is now illegal to have religious motivations as an educator or politician. At least according to this lame brain.

It does not matter if ID is scientifically sound. It does not matter if there is no mention of deity in the ID proposition. (Even though this would not be unconstitutional because it does not establish any particular religion.)

What matters to this nut is that the people who want ID openly express their faith.

They are guilty of being illegally motivated by religious faith.

BTW, ID does not contradict the evolutionary theory of speciation. It also does not explore theology. It is a postulate about the origins of life.

Most high school level or below discussion of evolution fails to make this clear distinction: evolution does not explain the existence of life.

ID is the best scientific hypothesis for the origin of life.
50 posted on 12/20/2005 9:39:00 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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