Posted on 12/21/2005 1:05:43 PM PST by EagleUSA
WASHINGTON — The Senate blocked the defense spending bill Wednesday in order to force out provisions on oil drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge. The measure had been put into a must-pass defense spending bill in an attempt to get the drilling through the Senate despite opposition.
Drilling supporters fell four votes short of getting the required 60 votes to avoid a threatened filibuster of the defense measure over the oil drilling issue. Senate leaders were expected to withraw the legislation so it could be reworked without the refuge language. The vote was 56-44.
Click here to see how your senators voted.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist was among those who for procedural reasons cast a "no" vote, so that he could bring the drilling issue up for another vote.
The vote was a stinging defeat for Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, who for years has waged an intense fight to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He had thought this time he would finally get his wish.
Stevens called the refuge's oil vital to national security and bemoaned repeated attempts over the years by opponents using the filibuster to kill drilling proposals.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
So it's dead because they don't have the votes to beat a "threatened filibuster". What guts these Republicans have.
Frist is now on my short-list of RINOs...amongst others. There is going to be a strong anti-incumbent vote in 2006.
Have a happy Holiday with your filibuster, Senators. In your chambers.
the cloture vote failed, its that simple.
How are these guys gonna face the voters and say, "We saved ANWR from oil and gas exploration!" when those voters are paying $2.50 to $3.50 a gallon to fill up their SUVs?..........
Why? The only reason he voted NO on that vote is so that he can bring a vote on it up again. Its procedural. He voted yes then right before it ended when they saw they lost he went no.
They can't very well claim that as the truth when there is already a well drilled in ANWR.
Yep. President Bush needs to tell them to get their butts working to pass that legislation, agreed to by the House and Executive branch. I'm sick and tired of the Senate pretending they are the sole governing body of the USA.
Correct about Frist's vote. He did it for the right reason.
We had a very good week, despite a couple of setbacks. The silver lining on ANWR is that it's like money in the bank. The longer we wait to drill, the more valuable the oil becomes to us. We should be drilling today, of course, but we need 6 more Republicans with a spine, and we don't have them at this time.
Do you have a link/source for your mention on an oil well in ANWT? Thanks.
This will continue as long as there are not more Republicans in Congress from blue states. The only way to make that happen is with money.
And that assumes we manage to hold the House despite an overwhelming effort by the Dems to take it. If they succeed, impeachment is guaranteed.
Donate to your Congressman, and more important donate to the RNC's congressional fundraising. Without that, we will face impeachment on TV in 2007.
I think the key here is that BOTH of Alaska's senators want drilling in THEIR state. All other 98 senators should fall in line and not exercise power in a state they were not elected to represent.
There might be, but I don't know of such. The well was drilled some time ago. At present there is zero activity in ANWR, but there is plenty of activity at Prudhoe and points west. A suit was filed Monday, Port Authority v. Exxon/BP, claiming monopolistic practices because Exxon and BP won't sell the necessary natural gas to Port Authority so Port Authority can get around the Stranded Gas Act. Exxon and BP claim the Port Authority pipeline is non-viable anyway. Lots of things happening, right on schedule.
The vote reflects (supposedly) the fact Democrats ( and a few pubs too) want "more" debate on the subject of ANWR.
Cloture is the end ( or at least a limit) to debate. Cloture vote is required to spawn an up or down vote.
The ANWR issue has been an ongoing 'debate' for over 25 years. I would like to point out that ANWR issue has been tagged onto multiple bills over the years and has been ended up being dropped from them eventualy prior to a straight up or down vote. As a stand alone issue or in combination with others, a direct yes or no, up or down, vote never seems to come thru.
This in effect gives the nay sayers exactly what they want even though they are in the minority. That being the 'defeat' of actual drilling. This is not how our nation is supposed to operate. LACK of voting is not supposed to make policy. Voting is supposed to make policy.
57 people out of a hundred voted to take this up or down after such a long time. ( Frist being the 57th and only voting NO so he could bring the bill back up in the future).
It is all fine and dandy that some oppose drilling in ANWR, it is their right to take that position. What I find so wrong is that they abuse the power they hold when they refuse to allow an up or down vote on the subject in order to get their way. This is indeed an example of fascism. They impose their will on the majority thru the supression of the voting process.
The truth is not that the opposition wants more debate on this subject, after all it has been debated for an excess of 25 years. The real point here is that the opposers to drilling in ANWR will use any tactic they can to get what it is they want regardless of what the majority wants.
Although in a bit of an odd place, a DOD spending bill, I would pose that drilling our own available supply of oil is directly related to our defense.
It is time for the American people to see what the real goal here is and it damn sure isn't more debate. The real goal of the opposition to drilling ANWR is to hold the majority hostage and force the minority view down the throats of the majority.
This is the best and longest running example of how poorly our Congress is representing us and people need to take that into account when they go to the polls in 06. It is time for 60 senators to be on the same page over this issue.
Lets take a new path and hand the power of the Senate to the Pubs in a 60 vote fashion.
When 60 votes, if attained, up or down votes will happen. This is a good thing regardless of which side of the aisl you come down on in any given situation. Either you will be happy with the resutls of the vote or you will not. I will offer that having an actual vote and disagreeing with its outcome is more valuable that not having a vote to reflect upon at all. Finger pointing and gridlock will end when 60 votes is attained.
I watched the vote this morning and I watched over 30 minutes pass for 100 people to say YES or NO. I find this abhorant and utterly rediculous! That action should take no more than 5 minutes total. They play a political game every minute in Washington and we the people suffer.
I request that we the people take back our government and demand that things get done. The best way we start out on this path is to habd the Seante in all its glory to the Pubs with 60 positive votes. They will either do the right thing and make the people happy, thus retaining their control, or they will go balistic and piss everyone off. I would bet the farm that they call the votes and they press forward, something I think will see most people happy with their performance in the short term.
I support ANWR drilling. Moreover I support actual votes happening. Using cloture vote to stall an up or down vote simply to avoid losing a vote is downright underhanded. It is time to hold the party of NO accountable for their actions. Vote em OUT every chance you get!
The cloture vote failed, so it is no longer a threat. It is a reality. There cannot be a vote. "Guts" have nothign to do with this.
If you are a conservative NEVER EVER donate to the RNC or the Senatorial committee or any of those groups that collect $ and dole it out to individuals running for office. All that $ goes to RINOs because conservatives can raise their own $, but RINOs can't and are only saved by YOUR $. That's why 70 Republican senators will not yield 60 who will vote with conservatives.
Although in a bit of an odd place, a DOD spending bill, I would pose that drilling our own available supply of oil is directly related to our defense...
-----
We all know that this is a political football that is totally indicative of the libs obstruction of ANY COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY POLICY that would represent a win for Bush. Plain and simple. The "debate" over ANWR is a JOKE! We all know that. The libs are so determined to prevent any wins for Bush, they are hurting our country AT ANY COST AND IMPACT to do so. These maggots are so screwed-up in their politics-of-power and hate, they are killing every chance we have to pull away from dependence on the freakin' Arabs. The libs have notably been TOTAL FAILURES at any comprehensive policies (including energy) for this country. Their entire agenda revolves around POWER AND CONTROL and totally ignores the needs of this country and its people.
Plain and simple, for several decades now....
Perhaps when our troops stop getting paid they'll help the people take back Congress from the scoundrels now occupying it.
The majority of Republican Senators are good but we have 5 or 6 RINOS and they can cause trouble from time to time. However this does not mean that we are not controlling the Congress. We just passed few hours ago a spending cut bill and the Democrats were really f***ed on this one. The democrats can block some bills due to the power of filibuster but these are only few. The majority will pass. Now what worries me much more than ANWR is the filibuster of the Patriot Acts. This must pass, and the democrats are going to pay a very heavy price if they keep blocking it in next year elections.
It is plain to all people that pay attention that the democrats seek only power at any cost. The biggest difference is now people can view that openly quickly at their fingertips ont he internet. MSM has lost its grip and the dems are going to pay the price for their choices in each election as they have the last several.
As it should be, imho.
The cloture vote failed. So "debate" should continue until the next cloture vote.
If that fails, "debate" should continue until the next cloture vote.
If that fails, "debate" should continue until the next cloture vote.
And so on...
Eventually, the MAJORITY wins!
I hope I'm surprised this time, but Senate Republicans should not always appear to be in such a hurry to get to "the country club".
But the libs are the first to scream we went to war for oil, while they block steps towards using resources that lie beneath the United States.
Sadly, the Dems seem to have more unity and solidarity among themselves than the Republicans at this time...
Fair point, this demonstrates that debate is not the outcome that is actually sought. I would offer that after a cloture vote is taken then by all means take the senate floor and debate! Too bad the pubs do not press that point and make the dems pose the debate they say is so pressing on an issue this old.
Yea....first the Republicans couldn't do anything because they didn't control the house.
Then they couldn't do anything because they didn't control the Senate.
Then they couldn't do anything because they didn't control the Whitehouse.
Now they have all three and they are still frickin' helpless.
I do not believe that sending money to these clowns is the answer. I am sorry.
Could you explain or expand on this for someone like myself who is a little slow to "get it?" Thanks.
This really proves just how insane these moron enviroschizophrenics are!There is no environmental problem nor has there ever been.It is all phoney and was started to tear down America's industrial base and the "mushbrained" American people are such "wussies" they will believe anything about the"boogerman"!
If republicans control the Senate how is it that no up or down vote happened on this spending bill?
The fact is that the Minority controls the up or down votes in the Senate and that control lies with the Democrats. Hence, control of the Senate belongs to the Democrats until such time as 60 votes are cast by republicans on a cloture vote.
Agreed on the failure to get a cloture vote. However as I said this ANWR thing has become a psychological warfare between us and the democrats more than anything else. A failure of cloture vote is being used by the democrats for the last five years to rile up their demoralized base since they are defeated the vast majority of the time and they need something to cheer about and claim victory. On the other hand many republicans are taking it as a deadly defeat where in reality it is no that big of a defeat, and more importantly we have vastly more victories than the democrats on many more important bills and issues.
Sure, I can try, and the typo was meant to say 'hand' sorry about that.
The best way forward is to see 60 votes go one way on cloture votes. This way we can actually end the spin as to how and why some elected official voted as they did. We can use that very record to decide their fate when we cast our ballots. When no up or down votes are taken there is far too much wiggle room for excuses. I suggest we remove that wiggle room to hold our officials accountable.
I suggest that the culture of gridlock has for too long been acceptable behavior form our Congress. I offer that it is time to remove the ability for them to stall out votes in a way that allows them to avoid responsibility for doing so. By this, I mean that if they want to vote no to cloture then all those folks that vote no need to take the floor and pose the debate they claim is still needed.
Today we do not see them do so. We also do not see the opposite party require it. I am saying that the needed tool of cloture is being abused by people that cannot just understand that when more than 50 senators will cast a yes vote (up or down) they simply have to accept the outcome of the vote. Simply stopping an up or down vote by abusing the cloture tool is as anti democracy as it can get. Funny how the party of Democrats opposes the notion of voting unless they will win the vote and will act to disallow that vote anytime they will lose.
Pubs are guilty to an extent also, instead of requiring that the opposers take the floor and debate the subject they claim needs more debate, they simply point the finger at those that voted no to cloture and do not hold them accountable for doing so in a meaningful way that leads to resolution.
I say hand it off to the pubs because I support their agenda far more than the democratic one as it stands today. I find the Democratic platform repulsive today, being that it is not even close the one that existed in the time of my grandparents.
If the republicans actually could set the agenda AND gain up or down votes, the stalling in the senate would come to a halt. This in and of itself is progress. This type of progress will indeed lead to progress on individual issues. This progress can then be judged by voters when it comes time cast votes in the next election cycle. Pubs can do the right thing or they can abuse the power they are handed. If they do abuse it, then they will lose power.
I would offer that the democrats could do the same thing. I offer however that their antics over the last couple of decades has soured the majority of the american people.
I think that you could ask Americans this question and you would get an overwelming yes as the answer.
"Is it the responsibility of elected Senators to cast a yes or no vote on any given piece of legislation?"
People understanding that debate is called for and should happen but eventually an up or down vote has to be cast.
Asking the people if they send people, with their individual votes, to the Senate ( or the house) to STOP up or down votes would result in overwhelming majority of NO's.
I agree, Pubs should not say this is a defeat. They should calim a win that shows how much the dems will do and how far they will go to supress the vote when they know they will lose it. I say make em debate! Make them go on the record in explanation of why they claim mopre debate is needed. Key fact here is that they will not go on the record and say why they claim more debate is needed for the exact reason you cite.
It is a mind game they employ to garner votes on the environmental front and it simply does not hold up to debate....which is why they will not partake in that event.
Dems have become firmly anti-populist, anti-"will of the people," they must manipulate in order to shove the agenda du jour down the throats of the populace; so it follows their Senate MO would be the same.
The average person is not up the hair-splitting legalisms that are in play in our governing bodies. For example, I had to look up the meaning of 'cloture,' since it has not heretofore been in my vocabulary. However, I do not overly suffer embarassment over my ignorance, so I admit I learned this today:
cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.
It appears to be the perfect tool to get things moving.
I agree with you that the overuse of the "wiggle room" has given us the most candy-assed legislators we have yet seen. We need straight talkers and straight shooters, IMO.
Perfect example is the NSRC supporting Lincoln Chafee (who joined the Democrats in the filibuster today) against a conservative primary challenger. As to the events of the day, if the Republicans had been the least bit astute, they would have easily and properly portrayed this as the Democrats being willing to compromise the safety of American troops to protect some caribou.
When used correctly it is a great tool. It is a needed tool. Problem is that when it is abused it is used as a way to kill a bill that you simply do not want to vote on because you do not have the votes to defeat it outright.
Cloture means bringing debate to a close leading to an up or down vote.
Yes it takes 60 votes. It used to take more than that. Ask ole BYRD about why he lead the way to reduce it to 60 votes ;) He made basically the same argument that I make now. It was abused in such a way as to obstruct progress based on the will of the minority. Used as a tool to stop the vote while ignoring the debate they themselves call for.
Amazing isn't it?
You said something that I cannot agree with more than I do today.
We need straight talkers and straight shooters. I refer to them as Statesmen ( gender inclusive ) as opposed to career politicians.
I see W acting as a statesman even though he comes from a family of career politicians. He speaks simple and to the point and personally I think that is why the MSM treats him as they do. For many years their primary task was to 'translate' the political speak of these career politicans for the rest of us to understand.....explaining what 'between the lines' means. With W there is no need to read between the lines. He says what he means and does what he says he will do.
Wouldn't it be nice if Frist would do the same thing?
Don't feed the RINOs by giving through the campaign committees. At least don't feed them much. They fought to save Spector. They are fighting to save Chafee. Spend for better Republicans. Give to The Club for Growth. They successfully fund real conservatives who give the RINOs a pain in the neck. They are currently run by Pat Toomey, who'd have won Spector's seat if the RINO's had let him. Sadly we can't afford complete purity, but we can try to settle for tame RINOs that are willing to return to the reservation when we pull hard enough. Ditch the rogue ones, Chafee and McCain, first as well as upgrading safe districts from RINOs to Conservatives.
Could the Cowboy President be setting a trend?
Our Terminator Guv in this blue state doesn't seem to be fitting the career politician mold either.
HELLO, paging Dr. Frist! Paging Dr. Frist! Saddle up, buckaroo!
Let's get this rodeo on the road!!!
Sadly, the Dems seem to have more unity and solidarity among themselves than the Republicans at this time...
-----
I really see NO LEADERSHIP in the Repubs. The Dems do have leadership, as sick and perverted as it is...and they are consistent (consistently anti-American).
Well it seemed that Ventura didn't make it for the long haul in Mi either. Even though he was right on the money with things he did and said. Examples being that churches should pay taxes too and the closing of the govenors mansion(to save dollars)
I think Frist will do the right thing and we will see this come to a vote again in the next couple days. I do not see how he has any other choice.
The best pub leadership I see is in the White House.
I sure hope Frist steps up. Keep that Senate in session until this bill passes the cloture stall and we see a up or down vote. Absent a vote, lets see Frist hold the fire to the Dems and force them to argue why NOT to drill ANWR on Christmas day! All the way to New Years day if need be!
It's still an easy way to debate the issue. And linking energy independence with national defense should also be a slam dunk. Simply shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well, people misunderstand us, the only thing to do is to give us 80 votes so we can break a filibuster (allowing for 20 defections of the weak-kneed) doesn't really get you very far. Also, it's about time that they use the power they've been given. Tad Stevens is head of Appropriations. Pick 6 Senators and just red-line all of their pet projects until they come to their senses.
Hewitt is playing the clip of Kerry yelling about his "DOODY!" in the ANWR comments.
bttt
I would hardly consider that I am advocating shruggin shoulders. That is the very thing I am speaking against!
I agree they should use the power theyhave been given...its called an up or down VOTE!
DEMOCRATS WANT HIGHER GASOLINE PRICES
A headline you will not see in the legacy media.
If the roles were reversed republicans would be beat with these headlines and lead tv news stories daily.
Kerry is such a POS. He really is in the same league as the Klintoons when it comes to being just an outright fake and a liar.
Dems like higher gasoline prices because it means higher tax revenues that they can spend on socialistic programs.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.