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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Hey, I'm a believer. But the freedoms guaranteed are not of this earth. They are ultimately controlled by man. Sadly, God does not intervene.

Even those very wise words from the Declaration, from the beginning of the Declaration through today have been controlled by man (or monarch or whatever). Those who wrote those beautiful words in the Declaration also didn't extend those same words to all people of all nations. As a matter of fact, they didn't even extend them to all people who would be affected by that declaration.

Those freedoms are ultimately given to those who will serve by His side.

770 posted on 12/30/2005 9:27:32 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: joesbucks
Hey, I'm a believer.

So you may claim...

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But the freedoms guaranteed are not of this earth.

Exactly what I said about Judaic doctrine and Mosaic Law.

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They are ultimately controlled by man.

No, not according to Biblical doctrine or the United States Constitution, which is what we are discussing here.

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Sadly, God does not intervene.

You don't believe in the parting of the Red Sea, the destruction of Sodom or the Great Flood?

You are a believer? I think you just cannot take the heat but do not want to leave the kitchen...

771 posted on 12/30/2005 9:53:38 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: joesbucks
Sadly, God does not intervene.

That can only be determined on grounds of faith. No one, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this good Earth can make such a statement.

Even those very wise words from the Declaration, from the beginning of the Declaration through today have been controlled by man (or monarch or whatever). Those who wrote those beautiful words in the Declaration also didn't extend those same words to all people of all nations. As a matter of fact, they didn't even extend them to all people who would be affected by that declaration.

The point in both the DoI and the Constitution is that rights are granted neither by man nor by government, but by our Creator (to most of us, God). The DoI and the Constitution simply guarantees, enumerates, and lists those rights, and prohibits men and governments from denying those rights on the grounds that men and government have no authority to deny said rights.

At the same time though, man has throughout history twisted and perverted, or even at times outright ignored this principle for capricious or purely evil means. While I won't doubt that, it still does not change the fact that the DoI and Constitution make note of the lack of authority of other men to deny specific rights.

This was one of, if not the key question with regard to slavery--how can a nation founded on high ideals and the principle that man cannot deny another man's freedom be ignored? Is that not hypocrisy? (note: rhetorical questions)

773 posted on 12/30/2005 10:23:26 AM PST by rzeznikj at stout (Denial is a river in Egypt...)
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