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To: Strategerist; My2Cents
When I leave things out in the sun, they tend to deteriorate, not evolve into something more complex.

Leave some salt or sugar water out in the sun. You'll end up with crystals which are more complex than their structure in solution.

...look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, ...

Yes.

with no intelligent designer at all.

This last part is a non-sequitar. How can you know there was "no intelligent designer at all."

28 posted on 12/28/2005 3:41:28 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy
This last part is a non-sequitar. How can you know there was "no intelligent designer at all."

The process by which a tropical wave organizes into a hurricane is fairly well understood, has been observed repeatedly, and is reproducible in computer simulations that merely set the initial conditions and allow interaction based on the laws of physics, without any sort of framework or plan.

It's not necessary to invoke a "designer" to explain the formation of a hurricane, any more than it's needed to explain lightning or myriad other physical processes.

I can't prove or disprove there was an intelligent designer because that question falls out of science. It's only that one isn't necessary to explain that particular physical process.

If people simply threw up their hands and gave up and said "Gee, God musta done it" regarding either the formation or tracks of tropical systems we wouldn't have the complex computer models that we have now that do a generally good and ever-improving job of forecasting them.

42 posted on 12/28/2005 3:52:56 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: tallhappy
"Leave some salt or sugar water out in the sun. You'll end up with crystals which are more complex than their structure in solution"

People who believe this should take a course in basic chemistry. The shape of any crystal is pre-determined by the bonding angle created by electron sharing in the molecule. dissolving the molecules in water is simply a case of a greater force (the polar water molecule) overcoming a lesser force (the molecular bond of the solute) for the period of time it takes for the substance causing the greater force to evaporate.

Those crystals will form in the same way every time unless an impurity causes some random error. In other words, the order is in the molecule - forever.

47 posted on 12/28/2005 3:58:13 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: tallhappy
>>>Leave some salt or sugar water out in the sun. You'll end up with crystals which are more complex than their structure in solution. <<<

I leave sugar water out in the sun all the time....and it disappears. I think its the Hummingbirds. And yes, they are more complex in their structure than sugar water. For one, they have wings and for two, they can change direction faster than a UFO.

Have I empirically demonstrated your point?

341 posted on 12/28/2005 9:29:27 PM PST by HardStarboard
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