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1 posted on 01/02/2006 12:46:33 AM PST by presidio9
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To: NYer; wideawake; Coleus; Salvation; eastsider; MadIvan; Irish_Thatcherite

ping


2 posted on 01/02/2006 12:47:54 AM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9

Did George Washington make the list?


4 posted on 01/02/2006 1:05:20 AM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: presidio9

George Galloway is my nominee for the 21st Century.


12 posted on 01/02/2006 4:22:34 AM PST by Senator Goldwater
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To: presidio9

This always cracks me up. A saint cannot be a catholic, they must be a Christian only. And you can't make someone a saint, they have to live their life obedient to the Gospel of Christ.


15 posted on 01/02/2006 5:00:20 AM PST by MeekMom (Praise Jesus! We have so much to be thankful for!)
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To: presidio9

I'm sure this is a scandal. Becket stood up for the church not answering criminally for it's wrongdoings and this is a good thing? Presumably? (gee, where did pedophiles get the idea they might be sheltered...) The Britons made a decision on what they determined was Catholic Meddling and threw Rome out of the British Isles. I'm sure that's the generic version of it; but, it was their right to do so. Apparently, some people are still upset about it and trying to manufacture offense over it even now. To be sure, killing Becket was probably bad. On the other hand, we weren't there. And people often tend to "obscure" the facts for argument's sake. Was Mary, Queen of Scotts, ever canonized?


18 posted on 01/02/2006 5:19:51 AM PST by Havoc (President George and King George.. coincidence?)
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To: presidio9

Wow, no Guy Fawkes? How did he not make the list?


21 posted on 01/02/2006 5:55:59 AM PST by Triggerhippie (Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. <<<Sarasmom is a F'n lunatic - Beware>>>)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


24 posted on 01/02/2006 6:18:56 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: presidio9

This is list is ridiculous. The whole process of making such lists is silly. It must have been a slow news day at the BBC.

What about Harris, the mad bomber of World War II?

What about Edward Longshanks?

What about any number of the Plantagenets (many of them my ancestors!)?

The other side of the coin is that the whole process of picking saints is silly. Let God judge, and let not men try to second guess, or usurp Him. Anyway, the faithful should not be praying for intercession to dead people.


26 posted on 01/02/2006 6:44:03 AM PST by docbnj
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To: presidio9

Interesting post, thanks. Aethelred the Unready was one of the all-time worst, in my opinion. A great appeaser, far ahead of his time.


28 posted on 01/02/2006 7:07:57 AM PST by solzhenitsyn ("Live Not By Lies")
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To: presidio9
Apparently it's neither a poll nor a consensus of historians. It looks like they just asked ten historians to choose the worst Briton in each of the centuries they studied. So the guy who hates Becket nominates and elects him in one stroke. He settles his score and gets his name in the papers.

It doesn't look like there's much more to it than that, though the historian in question may have a sharp secular axe to grind against a British saint. I don't know enough about Becket and medieval Britain to have an opinion, but it does looke like a low blow to someone who stood against a centralized authority.

Mosely was an easy, too obvious choice, but a good case could certainly be made for him as worst 20th century Briton. He wasn't much compared to 20th century villains in other countries, but maybe that's only because Hitler didn't take over Britain. If events had been a little different Oswald Mosely could have been Britain's Quisling or Petain.

In terms of actual effect on the country there could well have been worse Britons than Mosely in those days. Was he really worse than a Philby or Blunt, for example? But as the leader of a movement, Mosely gets more blame than a run-of-the-mill political agitator or follower of Hitler or Stalin or spy. Given their talents, advantages and position more was expected of Mosely, or Edward VIII, than of less exalted figures, just as more was expected of Blunt or Maclean than of a streetcorner agitator. It's harder to excuse the rot at the top of society than at the middle or bottom, at least until things get out of hand down there.

The BBC "survey" is a pretty silly enterprise though. If Cumberland, the ravager of Scotland, was the worst Briton of the 18th century, why not name another imperialist for one of the other centuries? Why settle for Jack the Ripper, an easy -- though understandable -- choice? Why not Cromwell or the Rhodes, those who dithered while Ireland starved or conquered China for the opium trade?

42 posted on 01/02/2006 10:04:03 AM PST by x
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To: presidio9
Where is Freddie on that list?


45 posted on 01/02/2006 10:56:38 AM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: presidio9
The cat votes for this guy (guy?)


46 posted on 01/02/2006 10:58:39 AM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: presidio9

49 posted on 01/02/2006 11:03:57 AM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: presidio9
I picture John Hudson, eminent in his mind only, drumming his fingers on the 14th century oak table in his library, staring appreciatively at his roaring fire (12th century) and his extensive collection of first editions (you can put any century in you'd like).

"Hmmm...wonder what I can do to get some face time? What controversy can I (and my publicist) stir up that will ensure my lifelong tenure at University's expense? Gee, ya think some dumb Yank will want me to fly out to Los Angeles for a talk show?"

"Eureka! I've got it! I'll pick on a Catholic...Catholic bashing is so in this year!"

"Hmmm...maybe I should get the grey touched up....a tan...yes, that's it, I'll get a tan!"

55 posted on 01/02/2006 11:24:25 AM PST by blu (People, for God's sake, think for yourselves!)
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To: presidio9
Hmm...Catherine Zeta Jones.

I don't really think she's particularly malign, I just want to see some pictures...

65 posted on 01/02/2006 11:54:16 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: presidio9
I suggest replacing Thomas Beckett with Sir George Jeffreys, the judge who, with the approval of James II, presided over the Bloody Assizes.
69 posted on 01/02/2006 12:23:35 PM PST by quadrant
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To: presidio9

BBC is evil. I nominate everyone who works there as the worst human beings on the planet.


70 posted on 01/02/2006 12:27:12 PM PST by Palladin (All the way with Alito!)
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To: presidio9

George Galloway should be listed as the worst Briton of the 21st century.


96 posted on 01/02/2006 10:08:03 PM PST by reg45
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To: presidio9

St. Thomas Becket...except for breaking the vows of poverty, chastity and humilty, he made a great priest.

Why did it take four knights to kill him?


105 posted on 01/03/2006 10:33:58 AM PST by Sensei Ern (Now, IB4Z! http://www.myspace.com/reconcomedy/ "Cowards cut and run. Heroes never do!")
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To: presidio9
The Black Adder, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084988/, wasn't even mentioned. What's up with that?


106 posted on 01/03/2006 10:43:45 AM PST by Sensei Ern (Now, IB4Z! http://www.myspace.com/reconcomedy/ "Cowards cut and run. Heroes never do!")
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