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To: Badray

I appreciate your civility in disagreement since we usually view things from the same side of the table.

To be a 'reasonable' search there would need to be a good reason to search. With a good reason, there exists a probably cause to search. Same idea with different words.

The Fourth Amendment does not prohibit reasonable searches, nor does it require a warrant to do so.

It would not be reasonable to grab random citizens for pat downs, but it could be reasonable to pat down a group at a crime scene where one of the group is probably the perpetrator and probably still has evidence on him, especially a weapon.


243 posted on 01/05/2006 5:35:38 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye
I do apologize. I know that we usually do agree. I'm used to a lot of appeasers who will easily give in and seeing your post I thought, 'Oh no, they got to HIM'.

Now that I have had some rest, let me take you through my reading and reasoning. First off, the words and the style of writing were different back then. I will translate. ;-)

"The right of the people to be secure

(Safe. Free from the prying eyes of government)

in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,

(you, your property, your possession, your papers -- and your computer)

against unreasonable

(Random and without evidence of a crime, meant to intimidate and harrass.)

searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

(EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN)

and no warrants shall issue,

(To be reasonable, there must be a warrant)

but upon probable cause,

(They (the gubmint) better damn well have reliable evidence or information)

supported by oath or affirmation,

(Someone can be held accountable if it fails to meet this standard)

and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(That's so that an agent can't make it up as they go along just to cover their ass if they just screwed up or were messing with you.

So, if were written today, it might read like this:

"The people have the right to be free from the prying eyes of government. They and their property, possession, papers, books, and computers shall not be subject to search or seizure at random or with the effect or intent to harass or intimidate.

For a search and/or seizure to be legitimate, the agent must get a warrant. The agent seeking the warrant must present evidence or reliable information specifically naming the suspect, his location and what the agent is looking for.

The agent or agents involved will be held accountable and are subject to civil and/or criminal penalties if they fail to meet these standards."

244 posted on 01/05/2006 1:23:56 PM PST by Badray (In the hands of bureaucrat, a clip board can be as dangerous to liberty as a gun.)
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