BREAKTHROUGH OF THE YEAR: Evolution in Action

Science ^ | December 2005 | Elizabeth Culotta and Elizabeth Pennisi

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Remember, words are fluid, and can have whatever meaning we want.

lol

[Coyoteman]

It is an old tired debate and the ToE is just that a Theory.

So what else would it be?

[Echo Talon]

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

It is widely accepted in liberal circles that George W. Bush lied about WMDs but it doesn't make it so.

[Wolfstar]

Wow, wow, wow, thomaswest. I know you said those are actual comments, but they are just breathtaking in their ignorance. In fact, breathtaking doesn't remotely cover my wonderment at the depths of ignorance those comments reveal.

[Dimensio]

It is widely accepted in liberal circles that George W. Bush lied about WMDs but it doesn't make it so.

What predictions about natural phenomena can be made from "George W. Bush lied about WMDs"?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Nice selective quoting. You have decimated the definition to be whatever is popular.

" It is widely accepted in liberal circles that George W. Bush lied about WMDs but it doesn't make it so."

No, because it isn't supported by facts. The question is frankly not a matter of scientific discussion anyway. Your attempt at redefining theory has still failed.

[Coyoteman]

the·o·ry N
Abstract reasoning; speculation
An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Nice try. See below (from Google):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Model: a simplified framework designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence)

Observation: any information collected with the senses

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Religion: (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life."

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof

Impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

Based on these, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

[highball]

I love how creationists not only want to re-define words, when they do insist on pulling out the dictionary (as if that means anything in this context) they skip past the first couple definitions and jump right to the fourth or sixth one, pretending that those definitions somehow "trump" the first one!

Not only do they not understand how science works, they don't seem to know how a dictionary works, either....

[VRWCmember]

Kindly provide an example of this "evolution of the theory" having been done.
Creationists love to talk about science adapting theories to suit the evidence. They don't seem to realize the nature of science.

According to evolutionary theory, grasses should not be found with dinosaurs because these plants did not evolve until 80 million years later.

Dinosaur poop shows grass is older than it seems

WASHINGTON -- Imagine dinosaur terrain -- full of ferns and palms, right? Better add some grass to that picture. A new discovery debunks the theory that grasses didn't emerge until long after the dinosaurs died off.

...

They didn't eat a lot of grass, the evidence shows. But grasses must have originated considerably earlier, well over 80 million years ago, for such a wide variety to have evolved in time to be munched by sauropods, they concluded.

"These remarkable results will force reconsideration of many long-standing assumptions" about dinosaur ecology, wrote Dolores Piperno and Hans-Dieter Sues of the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History in an accompanying review.

Thus, either what scientists "knew" about the arrival of grass on the evolutionary scene, or what scientists "knew" about the disappearance of dinosaurs from the evolutionary scene from the respective fossil records turns out to be incorrect. So according to the evolutionists cited in the article, "long-standing assumptions" will have to be "reconsidered". (Evolution of the theory.)

[darbymcgill]

More strictly, symmetry typically contains less algorithmic information than asymmetry, and therefore can be generated by simpler machinery.

I can see how symmetry could be more easily replicated once achieved. But it seems to me that the achievement of symmetry via random mutation would be significantly more complex.

What am I missing?

[tortoise]

What predictions about natural phenomena can be made from "George W. Bush lied about WMDs"?

It allows me to make predictions about the natural phenomenon of human reasoning and rationalization in the face of contrary evidence.

[VRWCmember]

In fact, breathtaking doesn't remotely cover my wonderment at the depths of ignorance those comments reveal.

You would almost think some of the comments were posted by evolutionist trolls on an origins posting board to try to make people there sound ignorant. But certainly nobody would ever attempt such a tactic.

[Dimensio]

I once used the same dictionary game that creationists use to "prove" that the Christian God is cruel and evil. For some reason they didn't accept it, even though I used the same reasoning that they did.

[101st-Eagle]

No, but it is helpful to understand what "theory" means in the context of science, as too many people seem to think that it implies a status of little more than a guess.

And there is another set of people who regard it as "an irrefutable fact, never to be challenged because science says so."

[CarolinaGuitarman]

That has to do with paleontology/paleobotany, not the theory of evolution. It's amazing too that scientists adjusting theories to fit facts gets them in trouble with creationists. Could it be because creationists never adjust anything to fit the facts? :)

[Dimensio]

And there is another set of people who regard it as "an irrefutable fact, never to be challenged because science says so."

Perhaps a quote from one of these people to illustrate your point?

[zeeba neighba]

When I get time I'll put up a list of all the great theology questions the evolutionists pose. How'd Noah get all them there creatures in the ark is my favorite.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"I can see how symmetry could be more easily replicated once achieved. But it seems to me that the achievement of symmetry via random mutation would be significantly more complex."

Selection.

[ThomasNast]

Tom,

I'm convinced that the evolutionists are right. Random forces are just as good, if not better, than the thoughts of intelligent design. Therefore, here is my report for yesterday's numbers:

v,eo-0awer]kpqw4'mlsdgmo'slp[ awt4];awf'srthsesethapaf].;sergr[pgpapkoawfpkq ,wp[.,caoqer

Please forward to manaagement

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" How'd Noah get all them there creatures in the ark is my favorite."

It's a good question. Have an answer?