Appellate Court Awards Victory to Paul Reed Smith Guitars (PRS) Over Gibson (Guitars, not Mel)

PRS Guitars ^ | 9/12/05

[Drew68]

Appellate Court Awards Victory to Paul Reed Smith Guitars (PRS) Over Gibson

In a long-pending trademark dispute between PRS Guitars and Gibson Guitars Corp., the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit today reversed a lower court decision and ordered the dismissal of Gibson's suit against PRS. The decision also immediately vacates the injunction prohibiting the sale and production of PRS’s award winning Singlecut Guitar. Paul Reed Smith Guitars announced today that it will immediately resume production of its Singlecut guitars.

Paul Smith, the founder of PRS, stated “We are delighted that the appellate court affirmed what we and the industry have long known: the PRS Singlecuts are musical instruments of the highest quality that would never be confused with a competitor’s product.”

In the litigation, Gibson alleged that concert goers in a smoky concert hall might not be able to differentiate a PRS Singlecut from a Gibson Les Paul. The appellate court rejected that trademark theory out-of-hand, emphasizing Gibson’s concession in court arguments that “only an idiot” would confuse the two products at the point of sale.

William Coston, PRS lawyer, observed that the decision is a vindication of PRS’ meritorious defense of unfounded allegations: “We agree with the Court and Gibson’s own counsel that 'only an idiot' would be confused". Sadly, the injunction lasted too long and the court process was too long and costly, depriving consumers of the right to choose between the PRS Singlecut and the Gibson Les Paul. We hope that Gibson will now compete in the marketplace and not use litigation to obtain unfair advantage.

[Drew68]

Here is the 14 page opinion (in .pdf) from the 6th Circuit US Court of Appeals

While this was published last September, I only learned of it yesterday and figured since it wasn't posted, I'd post it for all the guitar slingers out here in FReeperland.

It is really an important victory for guitar players. Had the decision remained in Gibson's favor, the entire market of electric guitars (particularly lower-priced "knockoffs") would have been altered for the worse.

In 2004, Gibson Guitars successfully sued PRS Guitars for producing an instrument that only vaguely resembled Gibson's iconic Les Paul design. PRS Guitars was forced to cease and desist selling their "Singlecut" instrument in the United States. Suddenly, guitar manufacturers all over feared the wrath of Gibson litigation. Fortunately, common sense prevailed.

If you ask me, Gibson is just miffed that PRS builds instruments of such high quality that GIbson has been forced to surrender a share of the marketplace. Gibson needs to worry more about Quality Control, maybe even takeing a few lessons from PRS, than they need to worry about suing guitar manufacturers for building instruments that bear a cursory resemblance to their own. Furthermore, Gibson isn't entirely innocent of this themselves. Their Les Paul "Doublecut" bears a striking resemblance to Hamer's "Sunburst" model.

PRS Singlecut

Gibson Les Paul Standard

[BallyBill]

Bah Humbucker!

[HEY4QDEMS]

PRS can't possibly hurt Gibson in this area, anyone who can afford a Les Paul, (range $900 to $5000), is not going to settle for a knockoff.

If that was the case, then Gibson should sue their own subsidiary, Epiphone.

[TomKOne]

The PRS knobs slant differently. And, they go to 11....

[Wolfie]

Play ten different Les Pauls. Play ten different PRS Singlecuts. Now you know why Gibson is crapping their pants.

[Drew68]

PRS can't possibly hurt Gibson in this area, anyone who can afford a Les Paul, (range $900 to $5000), is not going to settle for a knockoff.

American made PRS aren't exactly cheap. They easily rival Les Pauls in price range. You can spend $3000+ on a PRS.

PRS Korean made "SE" series guitars rival Epiphone in the $500 price range. They are excellent guitars. The Koreans are building some fantastic guitars these days.

Incidentally, I was in a guitar store the other day admiring a $2500 Les Paul 1958 reissue. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the finish was cracking and bubbling up by the neck joint. That this instrument passed Gibson's Quality Assurance division is disgraceful. I'd never buy a Gibson sight unseen. While they manufacture many beautiful, high quality instruments, far too many "lemons" leave the factory. The same can't be said for Paul Reed Smith's guitars.

[Drew68]

Play ten different Les Pauls. Play ten different PRS Singlecuts. Now you know why Gibson is crapping their pants.

Bingo! See my post #6.

[Terabitten]

PRS can't possibly hurt Gibson in this area, anyone who can afford a Les Paul, (range $900 to $5000), is not going to settle for a knockoff.

I'm a Les Paul guy - currently paying on a Slash Signature model, which is setting me back about $3100. PRS' guitars are in the same price range, so they're going after the same market segment.

The problem is that Gibson's quality control is awful for the prices they charge. A friend of mine has a $3500 1958 reissue, and there's a huge red overspray on the neck binding. That's unacceptable for a $3,000+ instrument.

The bottom line is that other builders, like PRS, Hamer, and ESP, are embarrassing Gibson by building far better guitars at lower (albeit still high) prices, thus highlighting how much you're really paying for the Gibson name - and how little regard Gibson holds for their customers.

[Terabitten]

Play ten different Les Pauls. Play ten different PRS Singlecuts. Now you know why Gibson is crapping their pants.

Lord, that's the truth.

In Gibson's defense, though, when you find that one in a hundred, it's just unbelievable.

[Terabitten]

Les Paul porn!

[Terabitten]

They are excellent guitars. The Koreans are building some fantastic guitars these days.

I have a Korean made Peavey Wolfgang that just is just amazing. The quality control from overseas has improved exponentially over the last ten years.

[Maceman]

Plus no pick guard, a more pointed cutaway horn, with no trim.

I don't think any guitar purchasers would confuse the two.

[Wolfie]

In Gibson's defense, though, when you find that one in a hundred, it's just unbelievable.

Absolutely, but its a total crap shoot. Even price range is no indicator. Some of the crappiest Les Pauls are the highest priced.

[Boiler Plate]

Alright I guess this is dumb question but, who doesn't make copies of of Les Pauls, Stratocasters, Telecasters, Flying V's, SG's ect. All they all under license?

In regards to PRS the differences seem to be pretty clear, especially in light of the bridge and tailpiece configurations.

[HEY4QDEMS]

thus highlighting how much you're really paying for the Gibson name

That's the whole thing in a nutshell sadly.
I Have a Fat Strat and all the Gibson owners I know laugh at me and call me Fender bender. I really like the sound mine makes but I am tempted to buy a Schreck semi-hollow which is still way cheaper than Gibson.

[Boiler Plate]

Wow 11! Really?! They must be deafening! ;)

[Drew68]

I'm a Les Paul guy - currently paying on a Slash Signature model, which is setting me back about $3100. PRS' guitars are in the same price range, so they're going after the same market segment.

I am too. I had one in my younger days but I hit hard times and sold it. Still kicking myself! I'm saving for an authentic Les Paul Standard with either the Ice Tea or the Wine Red finish. I'll play 50 of them until I find the right one. The lower-priced Les Paul Classics are pretty nice as well though I could do without the faux-aged "green" trapezoid inlays. Yuck!

I played a Korean made PRS SE "Soapbar" in a music store a few months ago. I love P-90s. Very underrated pickups that produce a sound all their own. The store wanted $450 for this guitar and I curse myself that I walked out of the store empty-handed. When I came to my sense a few days later, it had been sold. It was a fantastic guitar. Perfectly balanced and played like butter in my hands.

[Phantom Lord]

I'll stick with my killer Gibson Explorer!

[Terabitten]

Absolutely, but its a total crap shoot. Even price range is no indicator. Some of the crappiest Les Pauls are the highest priced.

Absolutely. I played two 1981 Les Paul Customs in Denver a couple years ago. One was amazing, one was an utter dog. It's completely random.

[Terabitten]

I had one in my younger days but I hit hard times and sold it. Still kicking myself!

Heh, I sold my 1974 LP Deluxe gold top.

I'm an idiot.

[bassmaner]

bump for later

[Drew68]

Alright I guess this is dumb question but, who doesn't make copies of of Les Pauls, Stratocasters, Telecasters, Flying V's, SG's ect. All they all under license?

Exactly! The Stratocaster has been copied by just about everyone. Furthermore, ESP has a singlecut guitar that looks a lot more like a Les Paul than the PRS does.

I never understood this case. Companies have been producing lower-priced knockoffs since the 1970s. Of course, in the 1970s, Gibson was not challanged by any knockoff guitar maker.

[Terabitten]

The lower-priced Les Paul Classics are pretty nice as well though I could do without the faux-aged "green" trapezoid inlays.

The new Classics don't have the monkey-snot inlays. Just thought you should know. :)

[Bigh4u2]

I got rid of my 79 Gibson Artisan to pay the rent.

Tobacco finish,gold plated hardware, mother of pearl inlay.

I REALLY kicked myself for that one.

[Terabitten]

I never understood this case. Companies have been producing lower-priced knockoffs since the 1970s. Of course, in the 1970s, Gibson was not challanged by any knockoff guitar maker.

Yeah, but those were generally MUCH lower priced and of much lower quality - and thus were of no real competition to Gibson. These PRS's (and the ESPs, etc), are of much *better* quality, and of more consistent quality, than most Gibsons and *still* at a lower price point.

[Phantom Lord]

Several big name guitarists (Such as Hetfield and Hammett) dropped Gibson for ESP.

[Phantom Lord]

One of my favorite guitars...

ESP JH-2 Explorer with black diamond plate and deer inlays.

[Revolting cat!]

Thank you, I'll stick with my Gretsch!

[Drew68]

Yeah, but those were generally MUCH lower priced and of much lower quality - and thus were of no real competition to Gibson. These PRS's (and the ESPs, etc), are of much *better* quality, and of more consistent quality, than most Gibsons and *still* at a lower price point.

Exactly. Computerized Routing (thanks, Hotly Peavey) has revolutionized guitar manufacturing --especially in the lower-priced import market. It used to be where a cheap guitar was a starter instrument that one quickly grew out of. Nowadays, you can purchase professional-grade instruments manufactured in Korea for well under $1000 dollars (if not under $500) that exceed and often surpass $2500 American made instruments in quality.

The Korean made Schechter C-1 Classic with a "vine of life" inlay on the neck and Seymour Duncan pickups is but one example. It retails for around $700

[Drew68]

(thanks, Hotly Peavey)

Damn spell check! Ha-ha! I selected Hartley! I know I did!

[absolootezer0]

absolutely true. one of my friends, his brother and dad all have les pauls, the one my friend has is the least expensive, but best sounding and best looking of the three.

[randog]

I Have a Fat Strat and all the Gibson owners I know laugh at me and call me Fender bender.

I bought my nephew a Fat Strat for Christmas and I was impressed with the quality of the instrument. I knew about the Fat Strat from a buddy of mine that bought one previously--I couldn't believe the quality, especially considering that they're <$300.

As for me, I played a pre-CBS Strat for years, but I purchased a new Les Paul Standard in 1998. I like the guitar and it's become my main axe.

[Jaxter]

Crap. Even a very quick glance at the head tells you it's not a Gibson.

[HEY4QDEMS]

I actually paid $360 for mine at Guitar Center, I probably could have done a little better if I shopped around.

[Begin]

Both very fine guitars, if you ask me.

[Drew68]

I'll stick with my killer Gibson Explorer!

Sweet guitar. Why hasn't Gibson sued the countless guitar companies for making Explorer (or Flying V) shaped guitars? That's a suit they could probably win as the shape of these guitars would seem to me to be more proprietary than the generic single cutaway Les Paul shape.

[Drew68]

I'll ping ya' over here because I believe I see a PRS on your profile page.

[Bigh4u2]

This is the one I gave up to pay the 'rent' in 1982...

[Drew68]

Now they've got the Les Paul "Supreme" which is a beautiful guitar as well. Though that Artisan was a lovely instrument. I remember those.

Les Paul Supreme

[Old Professer]

Didn't Les Paul once say he could make an electric guitar out of a concrete block?

[Bigh4u2]

"Now they've got the Les Paul "Supreme" which is a beautiful guitar as well."

Nice, and probably not cheap either.

"Though that Artisan was a lovely instrument. I remember those."

And heavy too.

[doodad]

I love P-90s. Very underrated pickups that produce a sound all their own.

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't afford to drop the money for a full LP standard (or the back and neck pain) so I bought the faded doublecut LP with the soapbars. For $800 that is a great guitar. Action is not like alot of guitars, but those p-90s scream. Loudest of my guitars. And the build is perfectly acceptable for the price. My only beef was the action (now fixed)and the tuners (next project).

I could not afford it because the Ricky 620 is in the house! I love that guitar.

As far as PRS, I am looking at those hungrily. Very nice guitars. Fender and Gibson lost their chance years ago to stop the knockoffs by not defending their trademarks vigorously.

[Drew68]

And heavy too.

Yep! Nowadays most Les Pauls are chambered for weight under the 1/4" maple top. If you ran one through an x-ray it would look like Swiss cheese. The reissues are the only models (I believe) that aren't chambered. They're solid mahogany.

I read that the guitar's weight depended on what part of the tree they used wood from. If the wood was used from the lower part of the tree it was more dense and thus heavier.

[doodad]

Yeah Schecters are an underated guitar for sure. Some of the models are...well for a different mind set, but the price is right on.

[Drew68]

Fender and Gibson lost their chance years ago to stop the knockoffs by not defending their trademarks vigorously.

And by letting their quality slip while relying on their brand name to sell instruments. The mid-70s through the 1980s were some pretty sad years for these two American icons. Some poor instruments hit the market and Gibson and Fender simply didn't care.

Unfortunately, the guitar market has been taken over by collectors driving the price of 20-30 year-old instruments through the roof! I've seen mid 70s Stratocasters (which were regarded as junk when they were new) selling for over $2000 on eBay. Same with old Les Pauls. I remember in the 1980s when every axe-shredder wanted a pointy Charvel Jackson with a Floyd Rose, Les Paul Standards were selling used for under $300. Now you can add a zero to that price for a guitar that may or may not be a high quality instrument.

[doodad]

The mid-70s through the 1980s were some pretty sad years for these two American icons. Some poor instruments hit the market and Gibson and Fender simply didn't care.

I was pretty young in the 70's and I don't doubt that CBS saw it as a sideline. I got my first Sears guitar in 1976 (which just came home thanks Mom for keeping it). I have my second electric a '73 Tele deluxe I bought back in '88 or so. I have to say that it is a great, well made, growl toned buddy. It survived my friend's horrible temper and penchant for throwing it when he messed up a set.

[Drew68]

It survived my friend's horrible temper and penchant for throwing it when he messed up a set.

That's the beauty of Fenders. Built solid as a rock. Even Townshend had trouble smashing them! Whereas so many old Gibsons have headstock repairs, there are plenty of 30, 40 and 50 year old Fenders that short of worn finishes are still as straight as the day they left the factory.

An alder body and a bolt-on solid maple neck will last forever.

[Drew68]

Thank you, I'll stick with my Gretsch!

Oh, hell yeah!

[Drew68]

Didn't Les Paul once say he could make an electric guitar out of a concrete block?

He wasn't lying. You can pretty much make an electric guitar out of any solid material. Just bolt on a neck, screw in a bridge, wire in pickups and string it up.

Might not sound very good though! Electric guitars require certain types of wood to resonate and sustain. There's a Frenchman now who is building hollow electric guitars out of thin metal sheets. Can't recall his name but he's charging a pretty penny for his instruments and they are quite sought after for their unique sound.

[randog]

I bought my Les Paul at Guitar Center; I looked up the best price online beforehand and used that to haggle with them. They brought their price down to the online price, which saved me ~$500 off the store price.