Posted on 01/13/2006 11:23:01 PM PST by xrp
A squeeze cocker... Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhb!
Oh, the irony.!!
Hang on to that Glock 30. It's my favorite .45... shoots very accurately, fairly concealable and holds 10 rounds. It's a keeper!
.45ACP was the first cartridge I started reloading. My Springfield 1911 was getting pricey to feed. I built my initial brass reserve shooting CCI ammo. That brass is very good for reloading. As time went on, I couldn't always get all my own brass back at the range. I also found a bunch of other headstamps that yielded unpleasant results. I paid my kids to sort the brass and removed the difficult stuff from the reserve for reloading.
I've considered re-loading .50 BMG, but with the availability of ammo, it doesn't seem like it would be cost effective.
There's lots of good plinking grade surplus available. When you get ready to reload, you'll probably have to get a dedicated press that is a bit longer internally than the average press used for handgun rounds. Unless you are doing really long range precision shooting, it is probably not a big advantage to reload.
It's also dependent upon the powder used in the round.
I have seen the results of a number of gunshot wounds from a .45 ACP.
One solid hit generally ends the game, even with hardball.
I don't mean it kills them, it just stops them from doing what they are doing instantly.
L
I didn't mean to seem snippy at you, it's just that so much stuff in gun mags seems to be written by PR and marketing types rather than anyone who actually knows something about guns.
It's quite possible to get a one shot stop with a .22 LR round. Of course, you'd have to get a dead on spinal cord or brain shot to do it. By the same token a few years back some junkie in Chicago took 30 9mm rounds without going down.
There was another case in which the Illinois State Police hit some drugged up whack job with about a dozen or so 9mm +P+ rounds and he was still returning fire at them. He didn't go down until he took a 2nd hit from a 12 guage slug.
The key of course is to get the 'solid hit' you mentioned. A good solid hit to the aorta with a .25 is going to stop a fight a lot quicker than a marginal hit with a .44 magnum.
You're quite correct about the .45 round. It's an excellent fight stopper provided the good guy does his or her job properly. The reason that there are so few departments using that cartridge is that in the 'old days' there weren't many DA type guns chambered for it and many departments were nervous about letting officers carry a firearm 'cocked and locked' as it were.
IMO that was more of a training problem than anything else, but they don't listen to the likes of me.
The .40 is a pretty good round, but IMO what led to it's wide acceptance among the LE community is that has less recoil than a .45 or .357, the cartridge itself is smaller so that lends itself to smaller firearms, (this is important because of the large number of female officers with small hands), and the fact that Glock and Sig both make them. They seem to own the LE market these days.
Here's an interesting little 'muzzle flash' story from the past. In WWII our guys in the Pacific were convinced that the Japanese had some magic gunpowder that didn't emit a muzzle flash. What was really happening was that the barrel of the 6.5 mm Arisaka was just the right length to insure that all the powder had burned before the bullet left the barrel.
I know I used to load my .44 mags pretty hot, but then I realized that out of a 4" barrel that huge ball of flame was just a waste of perfectly good Bullseye. It wasn't gaining me anything velocity wise, although it was certainly quite a sight with the lights turned down at the range. So, I cut back back a grain or so on the powder charge. Voila, not nearly so much muzzle flash and I didn't lose anything in velocity.
I've read that Cor-Bon uses some kind of 'low flash' powder in their ammo. I've got a suspicion that they just do a lot of testing to match the powder charge to shorter barrel lengths but I could be wrong. I know it's hard to believe, but I have been wrong before.
L
I believe it was Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch who, talking about rounds going completely through the bad guy, said "Good, now he's bleeding through two holes".
Seems hard to disagree with that.
I have a Sig 232 which I love too, but the slide would frequently "bite" my hand.
I picked up a .380 Colt Mustang, it's even smaller than the Sig 232 and it has a mini beaver tail that keeps my hand safe. Unfortunately, Colt quit making the Mustang, so they can only be found used.
If they specified their methodology I don't remember what it was.
The FBI has many, many detailes reports involving shootings and I suppose they could extrapolate something based on this data.
Or they could have shot anesthetized animals and recorded their EEGs.
I really don't know.
Most results are data from real life gun fights.
Incapacitation was quantified meeting both of two criteria. (Both, not either/or)
1. Inability to get off another shot AND
2. Inability to move more than 10 feet from where shot.
Can you picture what part of your anatomy you would be doing without if that tool went off???
I have one of those myself - it's just a fantastic gun. I just took it out to the range today, as a matter of fact. I bought it at a gun show back in early December; I actually went thinking I was going to come home with a Glock 27, but I didn't like the way the Glock felt in my hand. I tried out a number of compact .40 calibers, including the CZ 2075 RAMI and the Springfield XD40 (another very nice gun - it was a very close second to the SIG).
I just got my Florida concealed carry license Wednesday and I'm now looking into concealed carry holsters. I'm finding that's a harder decision than selecting the gun!
You either need a head shot, an upper spine shot, a heart shot or what is more likely, a massive trauma body shot. Skin bleeds don't do you any good. Neither does another hole for it to leak out of. if the vessel is cut, shatters, etc. it doesn't matter if he bleeds internally or externally, as long as that blood is no longer flowing to his heart, lungs or brain.
A through and through shot to the abdomen may kill, but the bad guy can keep coming for at least 20 seconds.
I have seen PAVN take five 5.56 FMJ rounds in RVN. They went right through him and he kept coming. The subsequent M-79 round to the sternum ruined his whole evening.
Massive internal trauma is the secret to an immediate stop. That takes a great bullet delivered to a vital spot at reasonable velocity.
Absolutely shot placement is key, I was commenting on you stating that a "Bullet that goes in and out again does far less damage, especially instant, incapacitating damage, than does a round that enters body cavity and remains".
Any of the above damage is possible with a bullet that also exits the body. All things being equal, two holes will drop blood pressure faster and incapacitate the bad guy faster than one hole. If it takes out the brain, spine, heart or lungs on it's way through, that's even better.
I have a Marlin 1895SS and am thinking about getting started with reloading so I can use the gun to it's full potential, and just to see if I like reloading. I've seen the Lee Anniversary Kit listed for around 70 bucks or so (without dies). Would you recommend this for a beginning reloader, or should I look to spend more on something else?
I have a Marlin 1895M "guide gun" in stainless. Essentially the same rifle you have plus the muzzle brake. It is rated for 40,000 CUP max pressure. A 405 gr bullet is about the max size to be able to successfully fill the tubular magazine. I prefer to stick with 300 gr for general use. The Magnum Research BFR (2nd generation) can handle up to 500 gr bullets, but the pressure limit is 31,000 PSI per the gunsmith at Magnum Research.
If you want to put just a little more into the press, an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme will handle pretty much anything you ever want to load. It has a slightly taller frame for the longer brass. It may be long enough to handle 50 BMG if that ever strikes your fancy.
You will also need some "case lube" for the long 45-70 brass. It can get stuck in the resizing die if you don't lube it. The Dillon spray over clean brass on a couple paper towels does the job just fine. After resize/decap, you can wipe the brass dry.
I tend to prefer "carbide" sizing dies. They are much smoother. Hornady "titanium nitride" is also good. On smaller cases, the carbide is smooth and won't bind even without lubrication.
Before you do any reloading, you need to clean the brass. I use a small Dillon vibratory cleaner filled with ground corn cob and a tablespoon of Dillon brass polish. Run overnight for sparking clean, jewelry quality clean. Why bother with that? Dirty, gritty brass will scratch your brand new dies and damage every piece of brass that passes through them after they are scratched. Cleanliness is important.
Buy your powder in a 1 lb can/bottle and primers in lots of 1,000. You'll typically load 100 rounds which translates into one package of primers. A wood or plastic "loading block" is handy to stand up the brass after each pass in the process 1) resize/decap 2) prime 3) "bell" the case mouth 4) weigh the powder and fill the case 5) seat the bullet 6) crimp the bullet.
A precision powder dispenser (RCBS) can be calibrated to drop a precise amount of powder using your scale. That can save time as each charge is weighed out. Fanatics will use an electronic powder dispenser tied to an electronic scale. It dumps exactly the weight requested every time. That's a pricey, but very nice set of accessories for the loader with all the toys.
There is the whirlwind tour. You have a definite getting started cost with reloading. The money savings comes in re-use of brass and labor. The expendables are powder, primers and bullets. Calculate a per round cost vs factory ammo of the same type to get a handle on amortizing your costs. I've reloaded upwards of 150,000 rounds on my equipment. The saving paid for the gear long ago. Besides, its a fun hobby by itself. Put on some good music or a favorite radio talk show and fill the shelves with better quality ammo than you can buy off the shelf.
Impossible. There are two ways to incapacite a person. One is a hit to the central nervous system, i.e. spinal cord/brain. The second is through suffocation, i.e. blood loss. As for the first, any well placed shot from any firearm will do. This is the ONLY way to 'drop' a person.
As for the second, no matter what someone is hit with, it will take time for them to bleed out. Yes, some rounds work better than others, but nothing is going to create a 100% chance of incapacitation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.