Posted on 01/20/2006 10:28:11 AM PST by TFFKAMM
I guess you don't see it at all...
When someone is resentful and bitter even scripture will state the Holy Ghost is not present only man reasoning which is a limited tool.
I also know atheist who don't believe but they don't have an ax to grind they just don't believe and many live better lives than some profest Christians.
When I saw Marvin J. Ashton among his lump I know this is a sweet gentel soul and that sweet spirit radiated from that him!
And this Packham is in the gall of bittness to even pick on Ashton!
CoCo you can post all the claims you want, it don't mean or change a thing my dear!
Thank you anyway answering!
A simple correction.
Anybody who is a believer in God through faith in Christ by the plan of God the Father established in eternity past would pay heed to the admonishment at the end of the Revelation of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus as communicated to His disciple John by His angel.
Interesting point that you bring up,..do you really mean to imply Joseph Smith lied when he claimed to come face to face with the Father and the Son, which would be in contradiction to the last few verses in Deuteronomy?
BTTT
How much more orthodox or rightly judging could a Jew possibly be conceived?
I believe there are 2 different groups of Church of Latter Day Saints. The Reorganized Church correctly points out to the schismatic Utah group that court decisions have proven their veracity. The Missouri (Reorganized) Church rejects the name Mormon, however, the larger group from Salt Lake City is frequently associated with the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the name 'Mormon'.
I'm sure there are others on the thread better able at typing a fascinating history of their church, although discerning fact from fiction is sometimes difficult because many of that same group convolute false historical claims with truth.
Not two different wills, rather our Loed and Savior Christ Jesus has provided for us an example of how man has an appropriate relationship with God the Father. Faith is non-meritorious of the one expressing it. This lack of merit frees God's justice from preventing His righteousness from exhibiting whatever grace He chooses.
When Christ exhibits that same faith in the Father, so also are we to exhibit the same faith in the Father in all things.
There is a degree of truth when one says Mormonism revolves around everything Christ did. The significant problem is that faith in God must run THROUGH our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus,...not about and around Him. Acts 3:22 comes to mind.
The former Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is now known as the Community of Christ church. Their headquarters are in Missouri. The first president of this church was Joseph Smith's son, Joseph Smith III. The presidency was handed down from father to son until W Grant McMurray was elected as president. He was the first non-Smith descendant to be the president. He resigned on 2004 after some improprieties. Their beliefs and the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints have diverged over the past 150 years. In 2000, they voted to change their name to the Community of Christ church. Here is their website Community of Christ
(Emma Smith, Joseph Smith's wife stayed in Illinois after Joseph Smith was killed. She did remarry. Most of the members of the LDS church followed Brigham Young to Utah.)
The history of the splinter groups from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can be found here. Schismatic Groups The groups did start splintering off in 1831 or so, many years before Joseph Smith was assassinated.
Good... this year, i hope maybe you'll get some more time to relax both at Lodge AND at the Range...8^)
Color country,
It is apparent to me that you are sincere in your beliefs, if to my view a little misguided.
I know you think you are older than I am, let’s go with that for a minute, does that mean you are always right, must I wait to be the oldest to ever be right? Once I am the “Oldest of all living”, am I always right?
Age has nothing to do with matters of philosophy, or religion.
In response to your “post about lies: I know how television interview shows work, you and the interviewer are in a room, there is a camera running for 4 to 8 hours. They ask all sorts of things, and push different agendas, buttons and or ideas, trying to get “something interesting”. After the interview is over, days can be spent editing those hours down to about 17 minutes of “show” there is no way to avoid some contextual error. I would need to read the entire transcript to know really what was being said and why. If the interviewer had approached these questions preceded by specific questions, I might well have given the same answers. I would have been trying to convey the truth. I would have failed, because of editing.
Simply put not everyone in the church is ready for some truths, just as a 3 year old is not ready to drive. So, no, not everyone in the church believes every doctrine taught by the church. Polygamy is not doctrinal at this time because we have received a commandment (Official Declaration #1, Doctrine and Covenants), forbidding it at this time. (It’s illegal, and we follow the laws of the land, and I don’t think we are righteous enough to live this way.) Will plural marriage exist in the celestial kingdom? Yes, this practice is not offensive to god as he ordained it in many instances in the past for righteous men.
This earth is a type and a shadow. When cows have calves, do they grow up to be chickens? When cats have kittens do they grow up to be mice? When gods have children, will they not grow up to be Gods? If we are the children of god is this not what this means? God our father was specific in his choice of title. He did not say god our Creator, or parent or Progenitor, or Mother, but God our Father. Jesus Chris, and Adam were in the “Express image of God”. They were male; does God have extra organs just so they could appear “Normal”? This is illogical in the extreme. True doctrine is never illogical when viewed from God’s perspective. If God calls us his children that is what we are. If God says he is our father, then that is what he is. There is no room for misunderstanding here to confuse anyone who is not “stuck” with a belief stronger than their faith.
I have received a witness, one that stays sharp in my mind as the years dim and other memories fade, this witness stands sharper then reality itself. God lives. His son Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the father and stands at the right hand of God. There is no other way to God, but through the atonement of Jesus Christ. The church of Jesus Christ Of latter day saints is the true church, restored to its fullness and glory in these the latter days. I believe this to be true with all my heart, might mind and soul, because God told me so, and in a way that I dare not deny. No mere mortal can shake my faith because I know from whence my testimony comes. I truly hope that your faith in what you believe will lead you to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord, and that you will hear the words “Well done my true and faithful servant” when your time comes to meet him. I appreciate you attempt to share that faith with me, and will not “bash” with those of sincere heart as you seem to be.
>>A simple correction.
>>
>>Anybody who is a believer in God through faith in Christ by the plan
>>of God the Father established in eternity past would pay heed to the
>>admonishment at the end of the Revelation of our Lord and Savior
>>Christ Jesus as communicated to His disciple John by His angel.
Revelations was written before the Gospel of Saint John, was a separate book, and was not meant to end all revelation. The warning about adding or subtracting to/from this book refers to the book of revelations itself, not to the bible, which did not exist at that time. Deuteronomy has a similar warning at the end of it which shows that revelation was not ending there either.
>>Interesting point that you bring up,..do you really mean to imply
>>Joseph Smith lied when he claimed to come face to face with the
>>Father and the Son, which would be in contradiction to the last
>>few verses in Deuteronomy?
I do not know exactly which verses you are talking about, please be more specific. As a general rule: No, Joseph Smith did not lie when he said… Whatever :-) Please do not put words in my mouth; I don’t know where they’ve been. (GRIN)
I assume you are referring to http://scriptures.lds.org/deut/34 where Moses is complaining that there arose not a prophet in Israel like unto himself, someone that god new face to face? Nope, Moses was right when he wrote that for Joseph Smith had not yet been raised up as a prophet (Not for centuries).
I was talking about Deut 4:2 http://scriptures.lds.org/deut/4/2#2 which is very similar to Rev 22:19 http://scriptures.lds.org/rev/22 Which many use to say there can be no more revelations from God. (I think the argument is silly, God has always talked to those with faith, and he does not change…)
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to correct an unclear post.
" Often, just behind the facade of things is a huge hunk of gorgeous convoluted magic you would do well to lick."
Typical Markie-boy spew alright! ....
>>I know well, what it is, I understand it fully....it is not biblical....it is
>>not what traditional Christians would call "Christian." To my Biblical
>> understanding it is "Anti-Christian."
I am truly sorry some feel that way (Some because you are not alone in your feelings about this). However, I believe we are Christians, and will try to the best of my ability (as your posts indicate you understand the limited nature of man to be perfect) to be a Christian in every way including my behavior on this forum.
>>It is probably better for me not to try to challenge your faith....for you
>>it is necessary at this time.
Although I feel a tinge of the “Crutch” Statement in what you say, I see religion, not as a crutch (Which implies injury, or deformity) but a as a Ladder, allowing me to reach places I could not with my feet planted only on the ground.
Thank you, for not attempting to shake what I hold dear.
May your path be smooth, and straight before you, go swiftly, go with God.
Thank you Delphi, and may God sustain you.
Interesting comment. How does that square with these scriptures, which talk about marriage in the afterlife?
That was always a sticking point for me when I was a Mormon. One of the last adult Sunday School classes I attended was a discussion about sex in heaven...some were pointing out that since we would produce "spirit children," wouldn't it make sense that it would be sexual reproduction.
AND since heaven would be pleasurable, didn't it make sense that we would have marital relationships in heaven?
This was during the time I was seriously questioning their dogma, and it was one of the final straws. Again, it's just one of the many unbiblical teachings of the LDS. Then again they've been given the fullness of the gospel through continued "revelation."
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