Posted on 01/23/2006 7:39:54 AM PST by doc30
Being through the system, the H1B labor condition application has a much lower threshold for defining the skills necessary for the job. On the other hand, the permanent residencey Labor Certification process is much more stringent. For H1B, you don't need to prove there aren't Americans available. To get a green card application approved, you do need to prove it.
As someone who competes against H1B's all the time for jobs, compensation, and equal opportunity, it's *so* rough. And there are so many arguments that this stuff *doesn't* happen, that's all bularkey. Honestly. I've seen them offer 85k for an entry level programming job, plus sponsorship, only to hire in some talented guy that works 60 hours a week for $52k. It saddens me to see this law being abused so. This was a great read... thank you.
Where is this quote from? I couldn't find it by searching the article, and it's been quite a while since our unemployment rate was 6.2%.
Meanwhile, the unemployment rate for engineers has increased over the same period from 3.8 percent to 4.2 percent
So it went from really, really low, to really low between two quarters. That doesn't show a real trend. When the economy hits a bad spot, research and development takes a hit, always has. However, an unemployment rate of 4.2% is usually considered to be pretty good news.
And this is happening while there is a decline in the number of students going into engineering and CS.
I've heard this a couple times recently, but no one has ever pointed me towards the source for this info, and while I finished grad school 9 years ago, I haven't heard this from the co-op that works from me or from my father who recently retired as a Physics professor. I'd appreciate it if you could direct me to some data to support this.
It also seems strange that if this is true that it would be related to foreign workers taking jobs considering how low the unemployment rate still is. It just doesn't add up. I got my undergrad degree in 1991, and the unemployment rate was MUCH higher, yet there were plenty of engineering students, many more than there were jobs at the time.
Employers get around that by crafting a position around a specific H1B Candidate. He might have some obscure skill (say m68k assembly) that is not really needed for the job. All a manager has to do is put it in the job description and they can say 'well no American available to do this job'.
I thought the complain was widespread abuse of the H1B visa system. You're little suggestion of how they could get around requirements could possibly work assuming that they found the employee they wanted first and then create the job description after the fact, which isn't how it usually works, and would likely get you in trouble in sizable companies that are trying to follow the equal opportunity laws.
However, it still won't work on a large scale.
In general, employers just don't pull that kind of crap because it destroys their ability to keep the good employees they want to keep. With low unemployment rates like we have now, it's really not that hard to change jobs for most people.
Do you mind if I ask what field you are in? I'm only asking because I like to see where the trends are for employment and H1B. For example, the article nails the IT situation. Abuse is infamous in that sector, but for scientific research positions, from my own experience, that is not the case.
Excellent post and article...thanks much for posting.
Just for the record, I am in favor of completely eliminating ALL guest worker programs at all levels, from toilet cleaners to astrophysicists.
However, I want to make if easier and more efficient for talented and skilled people, which apparently would include yourself, to come here legally as IMMIGRANTS.
"Permanent residence" should be as a citizen designate or naturalized citizen of the US.
As a US consultant, you would be free to negotiate the best rate you can with a company, and I would hope they pay you very well for your expertise.
As Ive said on other threads, the H1b / L1 programs have effectively cut the bottom out of the market for wages and rates, unfortunately, the cost of doing business here does not get cut as well, UNLESS you participate in the program yourself.
The object of "politics as usual" in DC, is to allow a highly restrictive tax, investment, regulatory and business climate to exist in general for ALL business, large and small, but then to give preferential end around relief in the way of give aways such as the H1b program, to certain favored political contributors.
Example...two big loopholes in the program are how the so called "prevailing rate" is calculated, (up to the company to decide) and the fact the the Dept of Labor has no effective enforcement powers. Dept Labor just verifies that the forms are filled out correctly, but they dont care if its complete BS.
The other travesty is the fact that the H1b program also dovetails in with the liberal inspired and SBA managed Small Disadvantaged / Minorty Business 8A setaside programs.
This is why people from overseas like to come over here and setup job shops which employ mostly H1b people from their native country, and they go out and get government setaside contracts.
I know, I get calls from time to time from these shops, looking for American CPM talent to help manage the programs, many of which are total cluster___. I can barely understand the contracting agent at the company in some cases.
Gotta have that token American presence for the edification of the American taxpayer you see!
Thank you for your compliment. The reason I'm on an H1B is for permanent immigration. I was hired on a TN visa (under NAFTA, I'm from Canada). However, it is strictly non-immigrant. The first step for permanent residencey was to adjust status to the H1B, then proceed with an employment based green card application. As the system stands right now, it takes several years to be approved for an employment-based immigrant visa if you are outside the U.S. Most employers and potential recruits can't wait years for a job. By coming in on a temprorary work visa, employment can start upon approval, which is a few months for the H1B, or immediately at the port of entry for Canadians on a TN visa. So for Canadians, the route is TN --> H1B --> green card --> citizenship. NAFTA allows Americans and Canadians (professional degree holders) work relatively easily in each others countries.
I really wonder if H1-B's are cheaper, because it is so expensive for the company to carry out.
Welcome. Are you planning on becoming a citizen and remaining?
I'm going to cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now, the challenges, cost and time associated with the LPR are enough to keep me awake at night! The big difference between LPR and citizenship is voting, jury duty and the passport I would be issued.
Just to humor me: do you ever get calls from other U.S. companies that want to hire you away, H1-B and all?
Yes, of course.
But if the existing H1-B laws were applied (and enforced) honestly, that would be even better.
Several years ago, a head hunter did call and offered me a job up in the NE. Instead I got a minor promotion here. But I never went through a recruiter for my current position. It was from a job fair at a trade show. When I saw the ad for this position, and the reply card had a section for 'experience and qualifications' I simply wrote 'this was my PhD thesis.' It was pure serendipity that I found this position. It is very rare for a PhD to do work very similar to thesis work and the fit was perfect. In 6 months I turned a lab labeled by the engineering staff "The Mosuleum" into a very productive lab. I could not believe that a company as big and promient as mine didn't know diddly about what that alb could do. Even at symposia, I still meet other scientists who are not taking full advantage of the tools they have available to them.
ping
Anyone who works in software KNOWS this is true.. H1B program is an absolute SCAM, always has been always will be.. there is no shortage of good american Engineers, just companies know they can lie about trying to find an American to fill the positions and pay far less than market wages for some foreigner that they can basically own and hold their visa sponsorship over their heads as virtual slave labor.
H1B program is a scam, always has been, always will be.
Now, with the PERM info I just supplied, shouldn't there be more concern there than for the H1B system? This system is virtually an honor system for bringing in foreign labor on a permanent basis. How soon will people be screaming abuse there?
Thanks for the ping. Another fine example of how abuse is a double edged sword.
My dirty secret - I would actually welcome a somewhat more inflationary economy. I have everything to gain and little to lose from it, the way my finances are structured. The market for flat to deflationary action is the debt market. Those who are addicted to debt are the ones who drive globalization, cheap credit and wage erosion. What a bunch of losers.
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