Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pitt Professor's Theory of Evolution Gets Boost From Cell Research [Sudden Origins]
University of Pittsburgh ^ | 26 January 2006 | Staff

Posted on 01/26/2006 11:47:13 AM PST by PatrickHenry

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 341-349 next last
To: mlc9852; b_sharp
Would all of the particular species acquire legs?

They could eventually through interbreeding.

What if a particular species were separated by great distances?

That would be a barrier to interbreeding.

If they were in close proximity to one another, would genetic drift affect all of them at the same time?

Genetic drift is not an "effect", it's a result. Nor is it something that can be coherently described as happening "at the same time". It's what happens when differential reproductive sampling occurs across generations.

61 posted on 01/26/2006 3:18:30 PM PST by Ichneumon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
Were evolution driven randomly,

I can make a strong argument that evolution is not driven randomly...

there would be sudden emergences on all time scales.

Now you lost me.

62 posted on 01/26/2006 3:19:39 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Biology isn't a soft science. Just squishy. It's not as austere as physics and astronomy, but I regard it as one of the "hard sciences."

in some ways physics is less empirical than biology.

63 posted on 01/26/2006 3:21:41 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ssantomaur
Sudden Origins does not contradict Intelligent Design it works Hand in Hand with it.

Nope. The point eh authro is making is that sudden changes, even sppeciation, comes about as a result of selective (or environmental) pressure... Nothing at all to do with ID or creationism.

64 posted on 01/26/2006 3:26:55 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry

http://www.freerepublic.com/~patrickhenry/#herd

Very well-written, clear, and persuasive.

Well done!


65 posted on 01/26/2006 3:28:49 PM PST by thomaswest (just curious)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: ssantomaur
Cat jumped on my keyboard as I was posting, sorry.

Nope. The point the author is making is that sudden changes, even speciation, comes about as a result of selective (or environmental) pressure... Nothing at all to do with ID or creationism.

66 posted on 01/26/2006 3:30:23 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
...it is environmental stress which interferes with the genetic "proofreading" mechanism and allows the effective mutation rate to climb in times of deep crisis.

mutation rates not only climb, but the such mutations (non-lethal) can also accumulate in the gene pool over successive generations.

67 posted on 01/26/2006 3:51:07 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Rudder
mutation rates not only climb, but the such mutations (non-lethal) can also accumulate in the gene pool over successive generations.

All of which actually dovetails nicely with punctuated equilibrium. It appears the theory is about sudden phenotypical appearance of relatively small changes which still have to accumulate to get anywhere.

Schwartz's choice of characterizations of his theory will feed a new generation of Luddites, though. Some are already saying it works well with ID. Others will mock it as more "Hopeful Monster" nonsense. (It sounded overly saltational to me at first, but I think I see what he's saying now.)

68 posted on 01/26/2006 4:04:16 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
Please bear with me, I'm on some nasty drugs my doc gave me so I'm only partially here.

"Would all of the particular species acquire legs?

Because the original allele is recessive, as drift causes more and more of the population to include that particular allele in their genome, individuals within the population will occasionally 'pop' up wearing a brand new set of 'legs'. (the legs may just be modification or slight addition). The 'legs' would occur in roughly 25% of the offspring of parents where each parent had at least one 'leg' allele.

"What if a particular species were separated by great distances? "

If they were unable to breed with the 'mutated' population they would be considered a different species. As long as there is very little or no gene flow between the two populations the mutation would affect only the one population. However this really depends on the amount of gene transfer between the populations.

"If they were in close proximity to one another, would genetic drift affect all of them at the same time?

Genetic drift depends on quite a number of factors, but the gene flow between populations, and the population size are very important to the speed and success of the allele fixing in a population. A small population with little injection of alleles from an outside population is the best scenario for drift to occur. As soon as a few critters are born with both recessive alleles and they start having their own little critters, selection takes effect and determines the survivability of the mutation.

69 posted on 01/26/2006 4:05:11 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp

Thanks. I think. :)


70 posted on 01/26/2006 4:13:17 PM PST by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon; mlc9852
"Genetic drift is not an "effect", it's a result. Nor is it something that can be coherently described as happening "at the same time". It's what happens when differential reproductive sampling occurs across generations.

It can be reduced to simple mathematical models based on population size. If I remember correctly.

71 posted on 01/26/2006 4:16:08 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
saltational

As in, "to jump?" Can you pronnounce that word? lol!

Yeah, I agree, the word, "Origin," alone will bring undiscerning readers who are also "luddites" to believe they've found a new champion.

72 posted on 01/26/2006 4:17:55 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Rudder
saltational

"Jumpy" would be more idiomatic, I suppose.

73 posted on 01/26/2006 4:24:09 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp

There are two simple equations for the frequency of two alleles of a given gene (see Hardy-Weinberg principle):

Equation 1:p2 + 2pq + q2 = 1

Equation 2: p + q = 1

Where p is the frequency of one allele and q is the frequency of the other allele. p2 is the population fraction that is homozygous for the p allele, pq is the frequency of heterozygotes and q2 is the population fraction that is homozygous for the q allele. Natural selection can act on p and q in Equation 1, and obviously affect the frequency of genes seen in Equation 2. It should be noted that the second equation can be derived from the first (or vice versa) since p2 + 2pq + q2 = 1 implies (p + q)2 = 1 and p and q are positive numbers.


74 posted on 01/26/2006 4:24:16 PM PST by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: thomaswest

Thank you.


75 posted on 01/26/2006 4:26:02 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

What parts need expanding?


76 posted on 01/26/2006 4:27:09 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
saltational

After many years teaching neurophysiology, I got used to the pronnounciation of saltatory and when I tried to use the same syllabic emphasis on saltational and I had a brain fart...I'm going out for some fresh air.

77 posted on 01/26/2006 4:33:51 PM PST by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

Very good.

However the H-W equation will only give you the probable percentages of the combinations. What else do we need to do?


78 posted on 01/26/2006 4:34:32 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp

Nothing yet. lol Just let me absorb a little at a time.


79 posted on 01/26/2006 4:37:20 PM PST by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
I just read the darn thing. Now I'm really pissed.

I have 3, count them...3 versions of that same essay started but not completed, sitting on my laptop. Now I have absolutely no reason to complete any of them. How dare y...

Hold on just a minute, I think you may have done me a favour... Hmmm....
80 posted on 01/26/2006 4:38:50 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 341-349 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson