US backs Kosovo incentives for Serbs

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a1a04336-50ae-11da-bbd7-0000779e2340.html ^ | jan 29th 2006 | Guy Dinmore

[kronos77]

he US yesterday made the case for offering Serbia incentives to reach agreement in negotiations over the final status of Kosovo, while setting out the possibility of independence for the province if the ethnic Albanian majority accepted compromises to accommodate its Serbian minority.

Nicholas Burns, undersecretary of state, told a Senate hearing the US was neither championing independence nor autonomy for Kosovo. But diplomats said his testimony was a clear signal the US looked favourably on independence, under certain conditions.

In what diplomats also called a significant policy statement, Mr Burns made clear the US had no objection to independence for Montenegro if it chose to abandon its union with Serbia through a referendum, whose terms have yet to be agreed.

Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary-general, last week selected Martti Ahtisaari, the former Finnish president, as his special envoy to lead talks on the status of Kosovo.

The United Nations has administered Kosovo since Nato occupied the province in 1999.

“They [Kosovo Albanians] want independence. They have to prove they are worthy of it,” Mr Burns told the Senate foreign relations committee.

Mr Burns said he had recently told the Kosovo Albanian negotiating team that they could not attain their objective without compromise. “They have to assure the minority population there’s a future for that minority population,” he said. That included guarantees that Serbian churches and historic sites would be respected.

Asked what incentives could be offered to Serbia, Mr Burns said a successful outcome would help the prospects of eventual membership of Nato and the European Union. Serbia would not be able to contemplate joining Nato as long as it was involved in a territorial dispute, he said.

Mr Burns reiterated that as a first stage, to join Nato’s partnership for peace programme, Serbia had to make sure that Ratko Mladic, the former Bosnian Serb military commander, had surrendered to the war crimes tribunal in The Hague.

Mr Burns said partition of Kosovo was not an option. He also advocated a continued Nato presence, with US troops, even after the settlement of status.

Diplomats said it was evident that, behind the scenes, the US and UK were most in favour of independence as a solution among the six-nation contact group.

[kronos77]

Balkan Ping!

Anyone wants to be added/removed from my Balkan Ping list, please FRmail me.

[kronos77]

Mr Burns reiterated that as a first stage, to join Nato’s partnership for peace programme, Serbia had to make sure that Ratko Mladic, the former Bosnian Serb military commander, had surrendered to the war crimes tribunal in The Hague. Mr Burns said partition of Kosovo was not an option. He also advocated a continued Nato presence, with US troops, even after the settlement of status. Diplomats said it was evident that, behind the scenes, the US and UK were most in favour of independence as a solution among the six-nation contact group. ------------ OK, is State Departmand on drugs or what? Are United States going to build more Islamofascist countries? Guess so!

[kronos77]

They [Kosovo Albanians] want independence. They have to prove they are worthy of it,” Mr Burns told the Senate foreign relations committee. ------------------------------------------ So, Stade Departmant says: "Ben Laden want New York, he have to prove he is worthy of it" ? So far I supported Bush administration, but after blunders like theese.....

[jecIIny]

ping

[Lukasz]

Eastern European ping list

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FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list ping list.

[Lukasz]

As far as you exaggerate with your argumentation, I also dislike the idea of independent Kosovo. Such precedent might provoke similar actions in other part of the world. Kosovo should get some autonomy among Serbia but nothing more.

[kronos77]

I hope you are right about my exggeration.
And I think that wide authonomy is best for Kosov, and all they will muslims get.

But State Departmant offitials are downgrating America in the eyes of the Serbs with statements like theese.

[Atlantic Bridge]

As far as you exaggerate with your argumentation, I also dislike the idea of independent Kosovo. Such precedent might provoke similar actions in other part of the world. Kosovo should get some autonomy among Serbia but nothing more.

Why? It should be the decision of the majority of the Kosovarians in what form of gouvernment they want to live. There is a name for it: Democracy. If they want to be a part of Serbia, Albania or if they want to start their own country - I do not care as long as they are no threat to their neighbours or their own people and minorities. Religion shouldn't play a role in such consideration, since we do not live in a theocracy.

The problem I see is, that they are simply not able to form a own working government due to the tendency of their leaders to be hateful, criminal and chaotic. The common people have to pay a bitter price.

[Lukasz]

This sounds good only in theory, I would understand if a significant territory is occupied by some nation and they want to be independent but Kosovo is a shithole and Albanians already have their own state. Only wait for other to follow, Africa, Asia and etc. Does Basques should also be allowed to vote? I have nothing against, such civilized countries like Spain and France should be example for others don’t you think? :)

[Atlantic Bridge]

I have nothing against, such civilized countries like Spain and France should be example for others don’t you think? :)

There is a big difference. The Serbs are not exactly those who respect the rights of minorities (I know - the Albanians are not better). Spain, France, Poland or Germany learned that it can be interesting to contain out of more than just one ethnic source. Did you know that the Katalanians are respected as a own nation by the Spainish gouvernment since a few weeks? Did you know that i.e. the Danish minority has granted seats in the parliament in Schleswig-Holstein/Germany? Did you know that the German minority in Poland also has the right on granted seats in the Sejm!?! This is the way how to deal with minorities.

Serbia is still not affixed enough to stand in for such a responsibility. I do not trust into their leaders. In fact they hate the majority of the Kosovarians with the bottom of their heart. It doesn't make any sense to hand them over defenseless people after what have happened.

[Lukasz]

Currently the Serbia are not great example how deal with minorities, I admit it. However I didn’t heard about any problems with Hungarians in Vojvodina. But with time they will learn what is necessary. How about history of the EU countries? How many years passed since they become tolerant towards minorities? They are not better or worse than Serbs and other Balkaners the victims of the Yalta agreement. You still don’t have any solution how to stop similar movements in Africa and Asia in the future.

[F-117A]

I do not care as long as they are no threat to their neighbours or their own people and minorities.

I guess you must care then... because they will always be a threat to minorities. The genocide of non-Albanians will continue until there are no minorities in Kosovo.

[F-117A]

Serbia Kosova is still not affixed enough to stand in for such a responsibility. I do not trust into their leaders. In fact they hate the majority of the Kosovarians minorities with the bottom of their heart. It doesn't make any sense to hand them over defenseless people after what have happened.

I could say they hate all of the minorities, but I suspect there are some that they do no hate. They just want them gone from "Kosova".

[Atlantic Bridge]

I do not say that Serbia has no potential to develop.

The question to me is what the Kosovarians want. I do not care that much about the political auto-erotic of some "local heroes" from Serbia or Albania, who are stammering around about "holy earth", "the defense of christendom/islam" etc. etc. etc. It has to be something the people can live with. They do not need a orgy of smeary nationalism, they need a place where their children have a future. Their own decision will be the best since they will make it in their own interest. The next problem to me is, that I do not want to waste much more German money and troops into this crazy quagmire. The problem has to be solved. Soon.

BTW - I wouldn't be that bad to me if boarders would represent the real boarders. The boundaries of i.e. Africa were made by British, German and French colonialists not regarding the local ethnic realities. Therefore it could be a political "quantum jump" for the Africans, if their boarders could be corrected into their needs. If you take north and south Sudan i.e.. It is not nessecary that the different ethnics (christian and muslim) are melted in one state and one government. I am aware that the change of boarders is usually a bloddy business, but if we have the chance to do it without loosing thousands of men like in Kosovo - why not try it?

[Atlantic Bridge]

Understood. But what is your solution to solve this problem?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

So when the Mexicans get a few more people in Arizona, they get to keep it?

Great.

[DTA]

>>>>>Why? It should be the decision of the majority of the Kosovarians in what form of gouvernment they want to live<<<<

I believe that you will agree that democracy means equal rights and obligations for ALL citizens, regrardless of the race, religion, ethnicity, that all "Kosovarians" have the right to decide what kind of "gouvernment" they want to live.

That means, Ethnic Albanians, Serbs, Roma, Ashkali, Gorani, Turks, Jews, Bosniaks, Croats have to decide, not only Albanians.

Also, that "Kosovarians" must be citizens of Kosovo, not illegal aliens.

As it is now, more than 300,000 Serbs and Roma are expelled from Kosovo, their property looted, torched down or stolen by KLA goons, and over 300,000 illegal settlers from Albania took their place.

Population of Kosovo was less than 2000 000 before the war and it is around 2000 000 today. The difference of 600 000 makes any wish of "kosovarians" pure fabrication - 300,000 have no right to decide because they are citizens of Albania and 300 000 are forbidden to return to their homes.

[Lukasz]

The question to me is what the Kosovarians want.

Double standards. You are not interested what Basques want, because you consider Spain and France to be democratic. So what is the conclusion? If they are democratic then they can ignore the will of the people in other words democracy?

I understand that you don’t like nationalist especially in Balkan version but independence for Kosovo is not good solution. You are worries how Serbs will treat Albanians, with wide autonomy they are save, there is plenty of them here… What about the Serbs and other minorities from Kosovo? Albanians aren’t less nationalist than the Serbs are.

Autonomy is the only solution, if later the Serbs would somehow mistreat Albanians in Kosovo then eventually world should punish them.

Beside theoretically what is the sense of independent Kosovo, if not Serbia they should join Albania. Who needs second Moldova?

I am aware that the change of boarders is usually a bloddy business, but if we have the chance to do it without loosing thousands of men like in Kosovo - why not try it?

I hope that you are also aware that we have thousands of such Kosovos in the world. Do we really want thousands bloody wars? Which country would send troops to all those regions? This is like Pandora box… Better don’t touch.

[DTA]

It seems that "Atlantic bridge" is a shorthand for

"Brooklyn brigde for sale - if interested call Atlantic Brigade" :-)

[Hoplite]

Autonomy is the only solution

It's been done, failed, and we're not wasting any more time with it.

The Serbs chose to turn their backs upon negotiations and compromise back in the 1990's. Had they not thereafter engaged in three unsuccessful campaigns of ethnic cleansing to either secure or enlarge Greater Serbia, there might have been some room for further negotiations in regards to Kosovar autonomy.

As it stands, however, they didn't, so there isn't, any more than there is a chance of Belgrade regaining authority over the Krajina or Republika Srpska.

Further, the Serbian police and army to this day still have not been held accountable for their actions in Kosovo (or Croatia and Bosnia, for that matter) in any meaningful way by the civilian government supposedly in charge of Serbia, so they're not going back to Kosovo.

It is what it is. No amount of discussion will make it into something it isn't.

[Lukasz]

It's been done, failed, and we're not wasting any more time with it.

Who are „we”? :-)

The Serbs chose to turn their backs upon negotiations and compromise back in the 1990's. Had they not thereafter engaged in three unsuccessful campaigns of ethnic cleansing to either secure or enlarge Greater Serbia, there might have been some room for further negotiations in regards to Kosovar autonomy.

It was long time ago, today’s Serbia is different country. Beside Albanians were also involved in ethnic cleansing, so we can say that they don’t deserve to be independent as well according to the same standards. Idea of Greater Albania was also popular among them.

As it stands, however, they didn't, so there isn't, any more than there is a chance of Belgrade regaining authority over the Krajina or Republika Srpska.

Of course, it must be clearly said that the Serbs must forget about Bosnia if they want to keep Kosovo. No double standards.

Further, the Serbian police and army to this day still have not been held accountable for their actions in Kosovo (or Croatia and Bosnia, for that matter) in any meaningful way by the civilian government supposedly in charge of Serbia, so they're not going back to Kosovo.

This might be another ultimatum if they want to keep Kosovo, I don’t see any problems.

[Hoplite]

We as used here is Uncle Sam, as embodied by the State Department.

"I" still have to overthrow the government and install "Us" as King before anybody will recognize "Our" using "We" in the third person, unfortunately.

Bloody peasants.

It was long time ago, today’s Serbia is different country.

Unfortunately it's not different enough. The biggest political party in Serbia is the Radicals, their leader still talks smack about "Greater Serbia", and the Serbs continue to choose sticks and protecting Ratko Mladic over accepting the international carrots for his extradition to the Hague - and that's what it comes down to: while the Croats, Bosnians, and K-Albanians have shown a willingness to work with us, the Serbs haven't.

This might be another ultimatum if they want to keep Kosovo, I don’t see any problems.

The point is that that deadline has already passed. We can't get the Serbian government to prosecute police who murdered American citizens much less investigate the murder of Kosovar Albanians.

Realistically, the only reason that Serbian sovereignity over Kosovo is still discussed is because Serbia's nationalist politicians realize that to accede to Kosovo's independence is a political death sentence.

[Lukasz]

The point is that that deadline has already passed. We can't get the Serbian government to prosecute police who murdered American citizens much less investigate the murder of Kosovar Albanians.

I doubt that it was stated clearly that if they fail to prosecute war criminals they will lose control over Kosovo.

[F-117A]

Autonomy is the only solution It's been done, failed,...

Hoplite is right on this one.

Autonomy was tried with the Albanians in charge of Kosovo. The New York Times was full of stories of Albanian repression of minorities in the eighties!

[Hoplite]

I doubt that it was stated clearly that if they fail to prosecute war criminals they will lose control over Kosovo.

Didn't say it about Bosnia, either.

Our bad.

[zagor-te-nej]

The Albanian Racism Towards its Neighbours is Based on Historical Falsifications

Vitomir Dolinski: An Interview with the Persecuted Albanian Academic Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich

[DTA]

Zagor, Albanian racism fuelled with invented Illyrian heritage is no different from Hitler's invented Aryan madness as a justification for The Holocaust.

The acceptance of Albanian racist madness in diplomatic circles is mind boggling. No one in the right mind would jusfity Hitler's quest for living space (lebensraum). However, the very same people justify Albanian expansion as something normal, moral and desirable.

Condy is asleep at the wheel.

In 1912, Albania's population was merly 50% Albanian. Today, it is over 90% Albanian. Other ethic groups are destroyed in less than 100 years.

The same pattern is documented in Kosovo and Macedonia.

After WWII, Albanians were less than 50% of Kosovo population. Now, with NATO's help, they comprise almost 90%.

Hundred years long track record documents Albanian intollerance, racism and extermination of other ethnic groups they come in contact with. At the same time, they cry foul and pretend to be a victim of invented "Serbian racism" Albanians are the nation of Menendez brothers!

The support of U.S. to this shameful racist expansion is perhaps one of the darkest moments of American diplomacy. George Washington and Wilson are probably spinning in their graves.

[sergey1973]

"So when the Mexicans get a few more people in Arizona, they get to keep it? Great."

Exactly. If it's OK to pry Kosovo out of Serbia because Albanians are the majority there, than why not to pry Arizona (plus the entire US Southwest) when Mexicans become majority there ? And no wars are needed--democratic referendum under UN Supervision of course and that's it. I wonder what Bush Administration and State Department will say about that.

In Kosovo we see in practice what happens when Wilsonian Self-Determination concerning wishes of ethnic groups are made absolute and put above any other considerations.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

It seems as if Bush and Rice couldn't be happier about surrendering the southwest to their friends in LaRaza.

All globalists are insane.

The US murders Serbs protecting their territory and now the US complains that the Serbs won't work with us, while all the killers and invaders we protected will.

Globalists are insane.

[getoffmylawn]

Albanians are the nation of Menendez brothers!

Nicely put! However, I would be more specific and say "Kosovo Albanians". The Albanians from Albania that I know don't really fit the "Menendez" mold.

[Tailgunner Joe]

“They [Kosovo Albanians] want independence. They have to prove they are worthy of it,” Mr Burns told the Senate foreign relations committee.

That hardly sounds like an endorsement of independence. Maybe there is still a chance Bush will reverse the course set by Clinton.

[norton]

Kosavarians??(!)

What this is -
Is islamist/clintonian/screwed-up-and-won't-admit-it pragmatism at its worst.

It means we can still suck as bad as all those euroweenies we enjoy picking on (and I DO enjoy it)

So now I have TWO reasons to wish GWB sleepless nights.

(HINT: Illegal immigration...from mexico, through mexico, through canada, and - oh yeah - from the same third world holes bubba sponsored/sponsors.)

[Atlantic Bridge]

It means we can still suck as bad as all those euroweenies we enjoy picking on (and I DO enjoy it)

So what? Who cares about who you are picking on? Instead of falling into a kind of political auto-eroic (wishing GWB "sleepless nights" - BuHuHaHa!) you should think about solving the problems where they happen instead if importing it into your (or my) country. Playing the self-righteous clown is no solution.

[kronos77]

Basicaly, you say that Albanians will descide fate of Kosovo?
That works with me.
So, Serbia should athnicaly cleams Kosovo from Albanians, so that 100% Kosovars are remaineed Serbs, and than claim that it is semocratic result?

Sorry, but falsley attained right is no rights.
(Albanian ethnical cleamsing, and attempt to verify it as OK)

[kronos77]

What are you sugesting?

You are saying that Islamistic ethnical cleamsing made right on some peace of land (lets forget cradle of Christianity on balkans) to declare it indipendant?

OK, so is than OK that Serbs Ethnicaly cleams that same peace of land and other neighbouring lands, claiming them?

Or you just imply that we should give it up to Islamists on kosovo cause they won`t negotiate, or threaten with violence? So, Serbia should become non-negotiabile-agressive and than it will be OK.

You are saying that USA is afraid of big bad Albanians?
You are saying that being islamofascist-murdering-raping, churchburning bastard brings you a blessing from USA?

And than you wonder why Russia is arming Iran, same Islam bastards as Islamofascists on kosovo?

Dou you have any brains left, or Mr. Soros medical team removed it completly leavin jus a small FM radio reciver so that you continue to here voices inside your head telling you what is right and what is wrong?

[Atlantic Bridge]

You are saying that Islamistic ethnical cleamsing made right on some peace of land (lets forget cradle of Christianity on balkans) to declare it indipendant? OK, so is than OK that Serbs Ethnicaly cleams that same peace of land and other neighbouring lands, claiming them?

It is sad that you guys from down there are all gung ho to do ethnical cleansings. It is a cruel fact that if such such a ethnical cleansing happened somewhere those who live on the soil will own it after a decade. Just imagine us Germans to expell all Poles from our former property and the Poles expell the Ukrainians from their former property. This is just ridicolus.

Therefore there will be only one solution: Those who live in Kosovo in the moment will keep it. If there was any etnical cleansing in -let's say- the last five years it has to be canceled. BTW - This is in the well understood self interest of Serbia. No one is going to accept them in Europe as long as they will have this problem. Why is acceptance important?

No acceptance = no business = no wealth = no future

[kronos77]

Therefore there will be only one solution: Those who live in Kosovo in the moment will keep it. If there was any etnical cleansing in -let's say- the last five years it has to be canceled. BTW - This is in the well understood self interest of Serbia. No one is going to accept them in Europe as long as they will have this problem. Why is acceptance important?

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So,

1. you are supporting ethnical cleamsing
2. you are saying that if you kill, rape, and cleams territory, it is yours
3. you are therefore advocating that Serbs should ethnicaly cleams Kosovo from Muslims and, BY YOUR "LOGIC" than it is legaly their?
4. Serbs don`t care for European Union (Im saying that)
5. We are not member of EU and we are doing just fine without Europe.
6. Buissiness have no frontiers.
7. you say, If Serbs don`t give up Kosovo, than they wont get into EU and they will not make buissiness? That is like Russia`s stand
"Give Abkhasia, Ajaria and South Osetia indipendance, or NO GAS!"

Check bateries on your Soros brain-stimulator, they are outdated.

[kronos77]

Eaquasions:

Kosovo gets "Indipendence"=Democratic goverment in Serbia falls=Hardliner pro-Russian nationalists coming to power=Nationalism boils=Serbs in Bosnia starting succession from Bosnia= civil wsar in Montenegro starts=New balkan War.

Pandoras box.
Made by Soros Unlimited!

[Atlantic Bridge]

4. Serbs don`t care for European Union (Im saying that) 5. We are not member of EU and we are doing just fine without Europe. 6. Buissiness have no frontiers.

BuHuHaHa! Serbia is one of the weakest countries of the western hemisphere. You have an unemployment of 31% and 30% population below the poverty line.

Serbia: Exports - partners:

Italy 29%, Germany 16.6%, Austria 7%, Greece 6.7%, France 4.9%, Slovenia 4.1% (2004)

Serbia Imports - partners:

Germany 18.5%, Italy 16.5%, Austria 8.3%, Slovenia 6.7%, Bulgaria 4.7%, France 4.5% (2004)

Source: CIA-factbook

Okay - It will take Bulgaria until 2007 to be a member in the EU. But the rest???! With whom do you want to trade if not with the EU? North Korea? This is really a impressive depency.

If the Serbians are holding on to their sweet idea of "greater Serbia" they will end as a country just as strong as Burkina Faso with a really wealthy neighbourhood. Serbia is already a economic dwarf compared to Slovenia and Croatia. After all you are at eye level with Albania.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Kosovo gets "Indipendence"=Democratic goverment in Serbia falls=Hardliner pro-Russian nationalists coming to power=Nationalism boils=Serbs in Bosnia starting succession from Bosnia= civil wsar in Montenegro starts=New balkan War.

I will not deny that your scenario is that unlikely. The question will be how long the western powers are willing to continue to maintain their presence in the region. Therefore it would be helpful to find a solution. Personally I do not care that much as long as the rights of the people we are protecting in the moment are not endangered and as the EU and my country in particulary are not bothered with sending more troops.

Hehe! You guys must really have a problem with George Soros. His policy is not exactly mine but I have respect for someone who unifies that much hate on himself.

[kronos77]

Hehe! You guys must really have a problem with George Soros. His policy is not exactly mine but I have respect for someone who unifies that much hate on himself.

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Kinda like Adolph Hitler?

God, Iw wasted my time on you!

[Atlantic Bridge]

There is some difference between Soros and Hitler. Just do some hsitorical studies. :-)

[kronos77]

Yes, there are differences between Hitler and Soros:

Hitler muredred and robbed Jews, and Soros by pretending to be Jew is robbing USA, Israel, and rest of the world.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Soros should be quite close to you since the is also a half-Hungarian.