Pro-Life/Pro-Baby ping!
Haleigh Poutre information
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Posted on 02/01/2006 7:29:10 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida
In the court (and courts) of life and death, a little 11-year-old Massachusetts girl named Haleigh Poutre could be the next Terri Schiavo. For those who have not heard the tragic story, Haleigh was beaten nearly to death last September, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather. The beating left her unconscious and barely clinging to life.
Within a week or so of the beating, her doctors had written her off. They apparently told Haleigh's court-appointed guardian, Harry Spence, that she was "virtually brain dead." Even though he had never visited her, Spence quickly went to court seeking permission to remove her respirator and feeding tube. The court agreed, a decision affirmed recently by the supreme court of Massachusetts.
And so, no doubt with the best of intentions, a little girl who had already suffered so much was stripped by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of even the chance to fight to stay alive. If she didn't stop breathing when the respirator was removed, which doctors expected, she would slowly dehydrate to death.
Close Call
Then came the unexpected:
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...
Ping. Does anyone know if someone has a Haleigh Poutre ping list?
There is a huge difference between this story and Schiavo. But you all know that.
very good article Ohioan!!
I didn't know where was a good place to end the excerpt. My apologies.
what's the difference? She is alive, brain damaged, and still some want to dehydrate her to death!
Of course there are differences, and there are similarities. But you all know that.
Then maybe I did excerpt it in the right place! I just want people to read the whole thing, and I would have posted the whole article, but I'm not up on all the posting article rules, and I don't want FR to get in trouble with copyright stuff.
The huge difference is that this young girl is still alive because the death ghouls have not succeeded in killing her, while Schiavo is forever dead.
I don't think anyone has a Heliegh-specific list, but I will ping my pro-life list.
ProLife Ping!
If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.
Can you add me to this list..
Isa 5:20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;...
I think it's sad that the media isn't paying attention to this either, but I hope they will as time goes by. Haleigh is far from out of danger.
Please don't think that Terri was 'brain dead' as was commonly reported by the media. She wasn't. She wasn't in a coma either. They misrepresented a lot about Terri.
With brain death, the person cannot even breathe on their own without the help of a respirator or ventilator. Terri did so for 15 years. She was no longer in a coma, as was commonly misreported early on. She came out from her coma within several weeks of her trauma, just as Randal McCloy, the surviving Sago miner, has recently done.
One, but not the only, difficulty for Terri was that of the Persistent Vegetative State. Whether Terri was truly in a PVS or had moved to another Minimally Conscious State was a point of debate even at her death. Smith brings up valid points in his article why it was only one thing that was problematic.
I hope that with more attention that Haleigh might have a brighter future.
There is a huge difference between this story and Schiavo. But you all know that
I am really glad you brought up this point. We can share it with all.
You will be glad to know there is an article stating just that! You can find it in the Boston Globe.
Haleigh Poutre is no Terri Schiavo
Moreover her brother made a fine response. Here it is.
Dear Ms. Young,
I writing in response to your column, “Haleigh Poutre is no Terri Schiavo”.
After reading all of the dishonesty that you purport as truths in regard to my sister Terri, I have to say that this is not only the most irresponsible article that I have yet to read from the media regarding Terri’s situation, but possibly the most egregious.
You wrote that, “Schiavo had been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, and had undergone a barrage of tests showing that she had no higher brain functioning and no consciousness – a fact on which all unbiased medical experts agreed.”
I want to know how you’ve researched Terri’s case, and how you’ve obtained this information. Could it be that you’ve gathered your ‘facts’ from the other opinion pieces similar to the one you’ve written about Terri?
If you are referring to autopsy that ostensibly proved that Terri was PVS, then you are entirely wrong. The Independent Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy, Dr. Jon Thogmartin, went to great lengths to caution those reviewing Terri’s autopsy that a post-mortem, forensic examination could neither confirm nor refute a diagnosis of persistent vegetative state. This is because PVS is a clinical diagnosis based on the behaviors of a living patient and not forensic pathology.
Moreover, Dr. Stephen Nelson – a consulting pathologist who assisted Dr. Thogmartin with the autopsy report – admitted that, while Terri’s symptoms were consistent with PVS, he could not rule out the possibility that Terri was in a minimally conscious state.
And there are numerous pathologists and physicians that have responded to the autopsy finding as being misleading and ambiguous. This information could have been and still can be easily provided to you.
I wonder if you were you aware that – as indicated in Terri’s medical records – she was talking when given rehabilitation in the months following her injury? This completely refutes the PVS diagnosis.
Additionally, did you know that there were more doctors on record with the court (from some of the most distinguished institutions from across the country) stating that Terri was not in PVS than there were doctors that said she was? Furthermore, most of these affidavits (there are more than 42 in total) submitted by these doctors said that if Terri was given proper therapy, her functioning capacity could have improved. Why was this never reported by the media?
Did you know that a recent British Medical Journal has reported that nearly 43% of all PVS diagnoses are, in fact, misdiagnoses? Based on this report, the Independent Medical Examiner findings, the sworn testimony and affidavits of over 42 physicians, neurologists and other healthcare professionals contradicting that Terri was in PVS, I believe it is incredibly reckless for you to make the sweeping statement that Terri was PVS.
The fact that my sister received no therapy for more than thirteen years, which also was rarely if ever reported by the media, only added to the deterioration of her condition. No autopsy report could have ever determined how much Terri would have improved if she was receiving proper rehabilitation and therapy during the past thirteen years.
To make the statement that, “. . . all unbiased medical experts agreed” as to the condition of my sister is so completely disingenuous that the only conclusion I can draw is that you did absolutely no research into the doctors that evaluated Terri.
Dr. Ronald Cranford, hired by Michael Schiavo, has testified in almost every major case that the removal of the feeding tube should be permitted. He even takes pleasure in the moniker, Dr. Humane Death. To call him ‘unbiased’ is like calling Rush Limbaugh a liberal democrat. And one of the other doctors that testified in my sister trial, Dr. Peter Bambakidis, was later discovered as having ties to same organization as Michael Schiavo’s attorney George Felos.
But aside from all this, what is really sad is that your article and so many others like yours does nothing but discriminate against the disabled by labeling them with this dangerous and subjective PVS diagnosis. The PVS diagnosis was created for one reason and to serve only one purpose – to kill those that are the weakest and most vulnerable among us.
No amount of damage to the brain or level of disability should give anyone the authority to kill. But this is exactly what you are saying - and is now happening all the time - that we can justify the killing of human beings because they have reached a level of profound brain damage that is unacceptable for us to care for them anymore. So, tell me, how long do you give Haliegh to improve before you give up on her and decide that she must die?
What is really shameful though is that I have to respond to articles like yours and defend my sister’s life and explain why her family should have been permitted to love her.
Columnist Nat Hentoff commented on the media and how they have handled my sister’s case. He said that it was so shoddy and inaccurate that it was the worst case of ‘journalistic malpractice’ that he’s seen in 25 years.
It continues.
Bobby Schindler
Thanks. :-)
God bless this little kid!
8mm
Never had anyone to love her, cherish her, etc....just people who want to pull the plug as fast as possible. God help us all.
PVS is a shamefully hopeless diagnosis. It is one where the doctor decides there is nothing he can do, and so gives himself permission to give up trying.
I am more encouraged by the doctors who understand that there are stages of consciousness, and that we can be unconscious for a while, then emerge from it, and sometimes retreat back into it, only to (oftentimes) re-emerge.
I detest when they refer to PVS as a permanent condition. Only death is permanent.
| ...Lest anyone think that Haleigh's apparent consciousness protects her from suffering the fate of Terri Schiavo, who was ordered dehydrated by a Florida court based, in part, on a finding that she was unconscious, think again. In most states, exhibiting consciousness is not a defense against dehydration for profoundly impaired patients. Indeed, cognitively disabled people who are conscious are commonly dehydrated throughout the country. So long as no family member objects, the practice is deemed medically routine... |
Sure, you're added to the Pro-Life ping list.
But those with an agenda are never interested in facts.
Thoughtful addition! :-)
I know you're a fan of Smith's, so I thought I should ping you to this thread. Hope you're doing well.
The futile care system is alive and well in our country as it stands today.
The Jihadists can find proof anywhere they want to look. Too bad they don't see their own faults and shortcomings, and are willing to kill others because of their blindness. I guess the same could be said of the euthanasiasts.
Imagine if we sentenced Scott Peterson to such a treatment.
The article in this thread describes the punishment of dehydration.
Defining dehydratable people.
It wasn't always so. It used to be thought of as unthinkable to remove a feeding tube. Then, as bioethicists and others among the medical intelligentsia began to worry about the cost of caring for dependent people and the growing number of our elderly — and as personal autonomy increasingly became a driving force in medical ethics — some looked for a way to shorten the lives of the most marginal people without violating the law or radically distorting traditional medical values. Removing tubes providing food and fluids was seen as the answer. After all, it was argued, use of a feeding tube requires a relatively minor medical procedure. Moreover, the nutrition provided the patient is not steak and potatoes, but a liquid formula prepared under medical auspices so as to ease digestion. There can also be complications such as diarrhea and infection.
Having reached consensus on the matter, the bioethics movement mounted a deliberate and energetic campaign during the 1980s to change the classification of ANH from humane care, which can't be withdrawn, to medical treatment, which can. The first people targeted for potential dehydration were the persistently unconscious or elderly with pronounced morbidity. Thus, bioethics pioneer Daniel Callahan wrote in the October 1983. Hastings Center Report, "Given the increasingly large pool of superannuated, chronically ill, physically marginalized elderly it [a denial of ANH] could well become the non treatment of choice."
And here is just one description of the effects of dehydration:
Saliva becomes thick and foul-tasting; the tongue clings irritatingly to the teeth and the roof of the mouth .... A lump seems to form in the throat ... severe pain is felt in the head and neck. The face feels full due to the shrinking of the skin. Hearing is affected, and many people begin to hallucinate... [then come] the agonies of a mouth that has ceased to generate saliva. The tongue hardens into what McGee describes as "a senseless weight, swinging on the still-soft root and striking foreignly against the teeth." Speech becomes impossible, although sufferers have been known to moan and bellow.
Next is the "blood sweats" phase, involving "a progressive mummification of the initially living body." The tongue swells to such proportions that it squeezes past the jaws. The eyelids crack and the eyeballs begin to weep tears of blood. The throat is so swollen that breathing becomes difficult, creating an incongruous yet terrifying
sense of drowning.
Finally ... there is living death, the state into which Pablo Valencia had entered when McGee discovered him on a desert trail, crawling on his hands and knees: "His lips had disappeared as if amputated, leaving low edges of blackened tissue; his teeth and gums projected like those of a skinned animal, but the flesh was black and dry as a hank of jerky; his nose was withered and shrunken to half its length, and the nostril-lining showing black; his eyes were set in a winkless stare, with surrounding skin so contracted as to expose the conjunctiva, itself as black as the gums...; his skin [had] generally turned a ghastly purplish yet ashen gray, with great livid blotches and streaks; his lower legs and feet ... were torn and scratched by contact with thorns and sharp rocks, yet even the freshest cuts were so many scratches in dry leather, without trace of blood" (Philbrick, 126-128).
Haleigh Poutre information
Please FReepmail me if you would like to be added to, or removed from, the Pro-Life/Pro-Baby ping list...
Of course there's a huge difference, but that doesn't matter to the willfully ignorant or the kookily obsessed.
Ted wanted water. He wanted to live.
Parents should not vacation in Florida with their adult children unless they trust them.
seriously. the medical providers are not healing, they are trafficking human beings straight to hospice.
Amerika, wake up. Ted was only 73 and people recover from strokes every single day!
Please put me on your ping list? Thanks.
Thanks for doing that. :-)
I'm calling Doctor Congressman Dave Weldon, Fl (federal or state investigation would be appropriate. Ted was from out of state but was murdered in Florida by Florida's DEATH CARE SYSTEM for the son.
It is a sad day for Ted Sr., a sad day for Florida, and for us all. Sadder still for all those condemned to horrible painful death by bioethicists, the ones we never hear about. Maybe we will be able to shine the spotlight on these murders.
Justice v. euthanasia in keywords. Okay to cover everybody subject to euthanasia here for the month of February? TERRI DAILIES for Jan can be pinged here.
We can become in effect the Haleigh ping list.
8mm
Here is the new Terri February Dailies thread.
8mm
Do you not see the similarites in the way the medical profession deems some as hopeless, or too expensive to care for?
Haleigh is lucky that she hasn't been denied food and water yet. Thank God that she was able to breathe without that respirator when push came to shove. The permission has already been granted to remove her feeding tube. It may still happen. Hopefully not.
If saying this makes me willfully ignorant or kookily obsessed, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. I'd rather be labelled either one, than to deny that there are similarities between Terri and Haleigh.
I noted the words "medical intelligentsia" with some irony.
I'm still here and don't plan to slow down!!
"They could still recommend to guardian Harry Spence that he withdraw her food and fluids lest she grow up profoundly disabled."
A court appointed guardian advocating death for his charge without ever having seen them, hospital staff brazenly lying to the state to get their patient killed; it's almost too much to comprehend sometimes. We are in a sad age.
In other words, imagine the Mother of all Hangovers. And guess what -- it's going to get worse for the rest of your life.
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