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Scientists moot gravity-busting hyperdrive Mars in three hours - theoretically
The Register ^ | Friday 6th January 2006 15:03 GMT | Lester Haines

Posted on 02/01/2006 7:35:54 PM PST by ckilmer

Edited on 02/01/2006 7:38:00 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Scientists moot gravity-busting hyperdrive Mars in three hours - theoretically By Lester Haines Published Friday 6th January 2006 15:03 GMT Get breaking Reg news straight to your desktop - click here to find out how

The US military is considering testing the principle behind a type of space drive which holds the promise of reaching Mars in just three hours. The problem is, as New Scientist explains, it's entirely theoretical and many physicists admit they don't understand the science behind it.

Nonetheless, the so-called "hyperdrive" concept won last year's American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics award for the best nuclear and future flight paper. Among its defenders is aerospace engineer Pavlos Mikellides, from the Arizona State University in Tempe. Mikellides, who reviewed the winning paper, said: "Even though such features have been explored before, this particular approach is quite unique."

The basic concept is this: according to the paper's authors - Jochem Häuser, a physicist and professor of computer science at the University of Applied Sciences in Salzgitter and Walter Dröscher, a retired Austrian patent officer - if you put a huge rotating ring above a superconducting coil and pump enough current through the coil, the resulting large magnetic field will "reduce the gravitational pull on the ring to the point where it floats free".

The origins of this "repulsive anti-gravity force" and the hyperdrive it might power lie in the work of German scientist Burkhard Heim, who - as part of his attempts to reconcile quantum mechanics and Einstein's general theory of relativity - formulated a theoretical six-dimensioned universe by bolting on two new sub-dimensions to Einstein's generally-accepted four (three space, one time).

As New Scientist explains, Heim's two extra dimensions allowed him to couple together gravity and electromagnetism, and permits conversion of electromagnetic energy into gravitational and vice-versa - something not possible according to Einstein's four dimensions, because "you cannot change the strength of gravity simply by cranking up the electromagnetic field".

Heim, then, proposed that "a rotating magnetic field could reduce the influence of gravity on a spacecraft enough for it to take off" - an idea which caught the eye of Wernher von Braun when it was first proposed in 1959 and the rocket scientist was working on the US's Saturn launch vehicle.

After the initial excitement died down, however, Heim moved on to other projects and his hyperdrive theory slowly gathered dust until the arrival of Walter Dröscher in 1980. Dröscher expanded on Heim's work, in the process reactivating two further dimensions the latter had originally discarded. Thus "Heim-Dröscher space" was born - an eight-dimensional concept of which Dröscher says: "If Heim's picture is to make sense, we are forced to postulate two more fundamental forces."

The said extra forces are: "A repulsive anti-gravity similar to the dark energy that appears to be causing the universe's expansion to accelerate"; and a second resulting from the "interaction of Heim's fifth and sixth dimensions and the extra dimensions that Dröscher introduced". Crucially, it "produces pairs of 'gravitophotons' - particles that mediate the interconversion of electromagnetic and gravitational energy".

The groundwork done, Dröscher then teamed up with Häuser to produce the award-winning "Guidelines For a Space Propulsion Device Based on Heim's Quantum Theory."

So far so good - in theory. However, as NS notes: "The majority of physicists have never heard of Heim theory, and most of those contacted by New Scientist said they couldn't make sense of Dröscher and Häuser's description of the theory behind their proposed experiment."

Furthermore, Dröscher and Häuser's proposed practical experiment to prove their theory requires "a magnetic coil several metres in diameter capable of sustaining an enormous current density" - something which the majority of engineers say is "not feasible with existing materials and technology".*

So, Mars in three hours? As NS puts it: "Dröscher is hazy about the details", but "suggests that a spacecraft fitted with a coil and ring could be propelled into a multidimensional hyperspace" where "the constants of nature could be different, and even the speed of light could be several times faster than we experience". Then, he says, a quick three-hour jaunt to Mars would indeed be on the cards. ® Bootnote

*Roger Lenard, a space propulsion researcher at Sandia National Laboratories in New Mexico does think it might be possible, though, using an X-ray generator called the Z machine which "could probably generate the necessary field intensities and gradients".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: aliens; aliensiseenem; antigravity; artbell; gravity; hyperdrive; mars; zmachine
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1 posted on 02/01/2006 7:35:54 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer

Warp drive ??


2 posted on 02/01/2006 7:39:25 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
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To: ckilmer
The problem is, as New Scientist explains, it's entirely theoretical and many physicists admit they don't understand the science behind it.

No reason to stop exploring the idea. Theory leads to discovey.

BTW, ckilmer, you should've edited out the ads.
3 posted on 02/01/2006 7:40:02 PM PST by Number57 (Badly worded, but heart-felt)
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To: ckilmer

She kanny take any more. She's gonna blow!


4 posted on 02/01/2006 7:40:36 PM PST by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: ckilmer

You first.


5 posted on 02/01/2006 7:41:14 PM PST by Dog ("if John Kerry didn't exist, Karl Rove would have to invent him.")
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To: KevinDavis

ping

I have no idea what they're talking about here, and I note the skepticism, but something new in the way of space travel machinery is needed.


6 posted on 02/01/2006 7:41:57 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality) - ("Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein)
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To: ckilmer

This sounds infinitely improbable.


7 posted on 02/01/2006 7:41:57 PM PST by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: ckilmer

Sounds like a Spin-Dizzy (from Blish's "Cities in Flight").


8 posted on 02/01/2006 7:42:41 PM PST by rbg81
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To: ckilmer

Joke News Alert

Follow the link.

9 posted on 02/01/2006 7:42:58 PM PST by Starve The Beast (I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused)
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To: ckilmer

10 posted on 02/01/2006 7:43:02 PM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Number57

D'oh. You fixed it and I nixed it. I misspelled 'discovery'.


11 posted on 02/01/2006 7:43:18 PM PST by Number57 (Badly worded, but heart-felt)
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To: Steveone

Three hours to Mars. The acceleration would be a bitch.


12 posted on 02/01/2006 7:43:23 PM PST by Dreagon
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To: finnman69

lol...


13 posted on 02/01/2006 7:44:05 PM PST by Number57 (Badly worded, but heart-felt)
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To: atomicpossum

It could work....won't know until they build one.


14 posted on 02/01/2006 7:44:41 PM PST by Dog ("if John Kerry didn't exist, Karl Rove would have to invent him.")
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To: ckilmer

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Star_Trek_Physics.htm


15 posted on 02/01/2006 7:45:03 PM PST by FreedomNeocon (I'm in no Al-Samood for this Shi'ite.)
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To: ckilmer

it would seem, if it works, the next phase would be to reverse the magnetic field to slow / generate orbit of the vehicle, otherwise no reverse magnetic field no slow down / no orbit of mass via vehicle.

if there is propulsion then that propulsion should be able to be reversed.


16 posted on 02/01/2006 7:46:38 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: All

17 posted on 02/01/2006 7:47:27 PM PST by FreedomNeocon (I'm in no Al-Samood for this Shi'ite.)
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To: Steveone

Sounds more like "folding space."

"He who controls the Spice, controls the universe!"


18 posted on 02/01/2006 7:48:00 PM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: atomicpossum
This sounds infinitely improbable.

That's right! It's an infinite improbability drive.

19 posted on 02/01/2006 7:49:25 PM PST by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: ckilmer
The only fine point left out may be the human body's ability to withstand the G-Forces. Without quantum leaps in the field of technology, the human body will be unable to fly at the acceleration point, or am I wrong?

I can't volunteer for this one!!!
20 posted on 02/01/2006 7:51:38 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: Luke Skyfreeper
"It's an infinite improbability drive."

That would appear to depend on whether or not there are eight dimensions and whether or not German physicists know a thing or two about math.

21 posted on 02/01/2006 7:52:42 PM PST by Reactionary
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To: atomicpossum
Yes - and it seems to be a hoax.

But, on the serious side, why can we insulate against every form om energy except gravity?

If such an insulator exhisted, the concept would work.

22 posted on 02/01/2006 7:53:06 PM PST by patton (I don't regret the journey, but it is time to get off the train.)
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To: no-to-illegals

Yep, you're wrong on that.

The theory is that you don't actually go that fast (can't exceed speed of light and all that).

What actually happens if distorting of space-time, its very deep. Goes down to the basic question of what is 'gravity' and how is it related to time and space... then harnessing it for use in travel.


23 posted on 02/01/2006 7:55:22 PM PST by FreedomNeocon (I'm in no Al-Samood for this Shi'ite.)
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To: patton
didn't Einstein imply....
the weakest of all forces in nature is gravity,
but he didn't say what was the strongest of forces unless it was E=MC^2
24 posted on 02/01/2006 7:56:49 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: Luke Skyfreeper

If something like this is not invented (or if it just impossible in the first place), we are simply stuck with very dangerous, long-term space journeys within our own little corner of the solar system only.

There will be no 3 year journeys to Jupiter or 10 year journeys to Pluto or 100,000 year journeys to the next star.

So we might as well try out some of this exotic stuff and see if any of it pans out.


25 posted on 02/01/2006 7:57:11 PM PST by JustDoItAlways
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To: Dreagon

It would get your attention!


26 posted on 02/01/2006 7:59:09 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
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To: ckilmer
I'm still working up the nerve to try this:


27 posted on 02/01/2006 7:59:41 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government "job" attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: billorites
She kanny cannae take any more. She's gonna blow!
Proper scotch spelling, please - didn't you read any period British fiction?

:)


28 posted on 02/01/2006 8:01:29 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters but PR.)
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To: no-to-illegals
fine point left out may be the human body's ability to withstand the G-Forces

I would suppose that if you're mucking about with the very definition and effects of gravity in order to move the thing... the G-forces ~inside~ such a craft could be whatever you'd like them to be?

29 posted on 02/01/2006 8:01:37 PM PST by Ramius (Buy blades for war fighters: freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net --> 1000 knives and counting!)
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To: no-to-illegals
From my read on the special theory of relativity, he implied that the stongest force was getting lost.

See, if you DO exceed the speed of light, you ain't coming back.

There is no isomorphism from and 8-cube to a four-cube, so you will be lost.

Personally, I think the strogest force is tree roots, myself.

30 posted on 02/01/2006 8:02:38 PM PST by patton (I don't regret the journey, but it is time to get off the train.)
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To: ckilmer

Interesting if mars was 50 million miles you would need to travel about 25% the speed of light to make that time!


31 posted on 02/01/2006 8:02:39 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
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To: ckilmer

Interesting if mars was 50 million miles you would need to travel about 25% the speed of light to make that time!


32 posted on 02/01/2006 8:02:42 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
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To: BP2
I hate Celentro in any form... "Spice Police"
33 posted on 02/01/2006 8:04:01 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Starve The Beast
It's not a joke. Here's a link to the paper.
34 posted on 02/01/2006 8:05:02 PM PST by BubbaTheRocketScientist
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To: BP2

LMAO!!


35 posted on 02/01/2006 8:05:05 PM PST by Steveone (Liberalism is a brain tumor!)
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To: Ramius

That may be a key if the gravity field is magnetically generated not only outside the craft but inside the craft as well. Only one problem do I see....the wave lengths of the magnetic fields (one inside the craft, one outside the craft) must be of different wave lengths.

JAO


36 posted on 02/01/2006 8:06:03 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: patton

you may well be on the inside track.


37 posted on 02/01/2006 8:07:43 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: ckilmer

I remember reading reports in the late 1980's, of two Canadian scientists working on "anti-gravity" motors. Same type of work, fast rotating masses of metal above superconducting coils, that seemingly cancelled out gravity. I thought it wouldn't be long before we had flying saucers going to Mars. But I didn't hear anything more about these scientists in the last 15 years. (Unless they built a ship and took off for distant worlds!)


38 posted on 02/01/2006 8:09:45 PM PST by roadcat
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To: roadcat

you have an excellent memory


39 posted on 02/01/2006 8:11:21 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
"Proper scotch spelling, please - didn't you read any period British fiction?"

Does The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy count?

40 posted on 02/01/2006 8:11:37 PM PST by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: ckilmer

does this mean we stop blaming Bush for our addiction to oil.....and blame our addiction on gravity......

we can always blame Bush for gravity......


41 posted on 02/01/2006 8:14:59 PM PST by eeevil conservative
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To: JustDoItAlways

one hell of a right turn getting past the asteroid belt


42 posted on 02/01/2006 8:16:21 PM PST by Michigan Bowhunter (What quantifies this as an assault rifle?)
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To: FreedomNeocon
it would make sense that two separate yet equal magnetic fields in close proximity to one another would possibly fold time and space. maybe?!?
43 posted on 02/01/2006 8:18:52 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: ckilmer; All

The grays already gave us this technology 40 years ago....


44 posted on 02/01/2006 8:21:03 PM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: ckilmer
ALTERNATE DRIVE:

http://www.butteredcat.co.uk/theory.php

http://www.butteredcat.co.uk/images/cat1.jpg

THE THEORY:

Basically: Cats always land on their feet, toast always falls butter side down. What happens when you attach a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat and then drop it?

The most common conclusion is that the cat/toast amalgam will fall to within a few inches of the floor, and then the speed of decent will decrease, as the two forces try to out-strain each other. This will (theoretically) cause hovering. In addition, as the cat struggles to get its feet to the floor, spinning may occur.
45 posted on 02/01/2006 8:23:07 PM PST by Keli Kilohana (Editor, ZARR CHASM CHRONICAL [sic], Sore, WV)
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To: taxed2death
and I've been wracking my brain attempting to figure out this problem...all my life

what was that Dean yelled again....? AHHHAAHHHARRRHJAKC
46 posted on 02/01/2006 8:24:48 PM PST by no-to-illegals
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To: ckilmer

bump


47 posted on 02/01/2006 8:39:14 PM PST by lesser_satan
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To: no-to-illegals
it would make sense that two separate yet equal magnetic fields

The Supreme Court rejected the notion of separate but equal in Brown vs the Board of Education of Topeka.

48 posted on 02/01/2006 8:42:37 PM PST by JohnnyZ (Happy New Year! Breed like dogs!)
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To: taxed2death
The grays already gave us this technology 40 years ago....

I resemble that remark!

(except that you spelled it wrong...)

49 posted on 02/01/2006 8:56:03 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: billorites

The matter and anti matter engines can't take it anymore. You must switch over to impulse power, captain!!!


50 posted on 02/01/2006 9:02:33 PM PST by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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