Posted on 02/08/2006 5:47:44 AM PST by yoe
"A nice thought, but if true he came far too close to losing in '04 to sKerry, so I'd have to label him (Bush) as dangerous if he is, indeed, playing around."
Bush wasn't in danger. Think about it. There are states that vote blue and states that vote red. Bush was in no real danger in any of the red states and had a chance to pick off Wisconsin or Minnesota. CNN tried to turn Ohio into a battleground where Bush won by over 100,000 votes.
The tried it in Florida in 2000. Question is, where will they try it next? My bet is Virginia and New Mexico.
I'm sure you know, Coop, that this would be a classic case of 'proving a negative.'
Why not believe him? (a) Anyone who thinks we didn't have the most comprehensive air and satellite surveillance possible during the runup to the war is kidding themselves; (b) The fact that, just a couple of days after going public with this claim, he comes out with some comments about Saddam and Osama kind of sounds like he is saying everything we want someone to say. It wouldn't be the first time an Iraqi had done this for personal reasons or personal gain. (c) The status of the WMD investigation isn't simply 'we didn't find them.' It is 'many of the reasons we thought they were there were weak and shouldn't have been used that way.' (d) If WMDs were flown out on a commercial jet to Syria, there are many, many more people than this guy who know about it. Where are they?
The good news is when Quadaffi flipped, we got all this nuke stuff which I believe we shipped to Fort Knox. Now, why we have heard nothing about this is beyond me. ""
IF we flipped Quadaffi, perhaps he is still a conduit on information, and that conduit is more valuable than telling about what we already know. More important to keeping finding out what's happening??
"d) If WMDs were flown out on a commercial jet to Syria, there are many, many more people than this guy who know about it. Where are they?"
Dead? These are people that round up entire families, even villages and make them disappear without a trace.
Answer = All of the above.
Add: George Walker Bush and "the others".
I agree with you that the party who has mastered voting fraud is now trying to master the contested election. Watch out--the 'Rats perfected their argument in Washington's '04 gubernatorial race, turning a surprise loss into victory and securing a judicially protected right to commit voting fraud--by both voters and county election officers. I have no doubt there will be another contested presidential election in '08 if the race is close and the 'Rats come in second. I have no doubt that the 'Rats are geographically flexible, and will go whereever they need to in order to make their case. Example--they challenged Ohio, even though the margin of sKerry's loss there was ten times greater than the margin of Bush's loss in Wisconsin, and where massive vote fraud has since been proven.
And anyone who thinks Iraq wasn't intimately aware of this capability and had compelling denial and deception techniques is kidding themselves. And then there's weather and darkness to consider.
(b) The fact that, just a couple of days after going public with this claim, he comes out with some comments about Saddam and Osama kind of sounds like he is saying everything we want someone to say. It wouldn't be the first time an Iraqi had done this for personal reasons or personal gain.
I agree. I'm not keen on the guy, but his credibility (or lack thereof) does not negate all the other WMD evidence.
(c) The status of the WMD investigation isn't simply 'we didn't find them.' It is 'many of the reasons we thought they were there were weak and shouldn't have been used that way.'
Nope. Sorry. I'm not interested in political or personal spin. I'm interested in common sense and evidence.
(d) If WMDs were flown out on a commercial jet to Syria, there are many, many more people than this guy who know about it. Where are they?
I'm not saying this happened. I find it quite doubtful. However, if it did occur and YOU were in charge, would you tell a lot of people what your cargo was? I doubt it.
Forgot this one. I agree, it is a classic case of proving a negative. Which is why I am always fascinated when people authoritatively declare that there are no Iraqi WMDs. Not only are they unable to prove a negative, but they have to accept the assumption that the Hussein regime willingly destroyed its existing WMD weapons. (We already know the infrastructure still exists.)
Cool. What evidence indicates that we were even in the ballpark with our pre-war claims on Iraqi WMD?
2003 is what is at issue.
And, frankly, if it had only been chemical weapons in 2003, there wouldn't of been many folks who thought that 'WMD' presented a case for war. Plagues and mushroom clouds were the impetus for that issue being in the forefront.
Yeah, it does. We can only hope that when the imminent attacks do come, it affects some of those doing the stonewalling more than those screaming for action. Even then, more pissing and moaning and finger-pointing will probably take precendence over actual solutions.
I appreciate both of your responses to my post.Many retired US military also include their former titles(rank) with: 'RET' after their names. The idea that he was an arab 'assigned' to our military seems to be the best explaination to me. All of the snipets in the article that you posted Dram, were the very ones that I read (grin).
Here is my other problem with the story:...as one of those people that have the utmost confidence in our military, it does not seem plausible to me that the guy's 'intelligence on WMD' was not followed up on at all by the US Military or Pentagon...UNLESS... someone in the chain of handling the info dropped the ball accidently or on purpose! What we need to know is exactly who was handed the info and where it went! The article does not make it clear to me.
From the article:
"His job was to pick up any intelligence on the whereabouts of senior Baathists and weapons of mass destruction and then send the information to the American weapons inspectors gathering in Baghdad that would later become the Iraq Survey Group."
The American 'weapons inspectors' would have been US military at that point in the war. It later became the Iraq Survey Group...correct? I remember reading that somewhere at the time anyway. Our inspectors would not allow the UN inspectors in at the time (and for good reason)..so lots of unanswered questions at this point. FRT, I have ALWAYS believed and continue to believe the weapons were there and if they are still there in some 'flooded' bunker, I have no doubt that our military is guarding it or have removed it. If the Pentagon and the Administration know about it and are keeping it secret..it is because our national security is involved. David Kay ALWAYS made me suspicious, especially after he returned and went on a media tour! SO many unanswered questions! I do pray that the truth comes out at some point though, the American people deserve the truth and not the media and leftist spin that has plagued this whole war!
You've lost me.
"The former Baathist general has no proof but his own word. Why should he be believed?"
You're talking about an Iraqi general who you say has no proof but his own word on a thread about an American who in all essense agrees, while claiming 1998 has nothing to do with anything when there were how many years of UN sanctions (?for what, I ask?) and then you start talking about plagues and mushroom clouds.
Maybe it's me, but I need a map to follow your thought processes.
Good grief. How did I know this question was coming? You've apparently ignored it for nearly three years, so I have no faith you're interested at all in evidence of Iraqi WMD programs and weapons. But I'll be nice and provide you a link to one portion of the ISG report.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5_annxF.html
And I'll remind you that Iraq was compelled by multiple resolutions to prove they had complied with destruction of WMDs which existed and were used in the late 1980s. Iraq did not comply.
Because I was replying to a post about the story of the former Iraqi general. That's why its called a thread. Sorry you can't follow it.
Put yourself in the fall of 2002. Imagine government officials are saying "We have evidence that Iraq may have a anywhere from two to four dozen chemical warheads from before the first Gulf war." Do you care? Does anyone care? Does anyone even try to cite this as a casus belli?
Do you really consider this to be 'in the ballpark' of mushroom clouds and smallpox plagues?
Could be they don't want photos of bio/chem weapons with a "Made With Pride
In The USA" sticker on them. Or England or other allied country.
(That's just a speculation)
If this is the case, they made a mistake...all should be revealed
if our soldiers are bleeding and dying over there in Iraq.
How else can we really learn from this war?
Really?
"Why is this stroy,
and the former General who says the WMD were moved to Syria
being ignored by the MSM? Never mind, I know the answer."
Map please.
"Because I was replying to a post about the story of the former Iraqi general. That's why its called a thread. Sorry you can't follow it."
But you are not following a story on the Iraqi General. This is another person that was working for the US military. Get with the program here (grin). Funny that you mentioned 'mushrooms clouds' in one of your earlier posts....that is what all of the liberals rant about. I don't know about anyone else, but I was always more worried about nerve agents in the hands of terroists at the time. It seemed more logical that those agents would and could be handed off to terrorists easier than a nuclear bomb!
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