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Vice-President Burr Kills Hamilton (history primer for upcoming Cheney comparisons)
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/B/aburr/burr.htm ^

Posted on 02/14/2006 11:29:19 AM PST by clawrence3

Perhaps this duel is the most famous in history. Its results certainly meant the end of both Hamilton and Burr. They carried Hamilton from the field and the next day he died. Burr lived for years, but the shadow of his own doom was ever before him. It is reported that late in life he observed that, had he been wiser, he would have known that there was room enough in the world for both Hamilton and himself. Had Hamilton been equally wise, he would have known that calumnies and lies bring forth but bitter fruit.

When the news of Hamilton's death spread abroad, a thunderous hue and cry went up against Burr. He was a murderer, a criminal, in spite of the fact that all of the rules required under the duelling code had been observed. The Federalists set upon him. He was indicted forthwith for murder, both in New Jersey and New York, and, while he was never brought to trial, he had reason to fear facing a jury, so thoroughly had the public been prejudiced against him.

(Excerpt) Read more at odur.let.rug.nl ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: alexanderhamilton; americanhistory; burr; cheney; hamilton; harrywhittington; ushistory; whittington
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Let's get out in front of this FReepers - prayers for Whittington AND Cheney no doubt - but be ready for a full-frontal attack on Cheney (criminal charges, impeachment, resignation). Make sure everyone knows that an 18th century INTENTIONAL dual is very different from Saturday's hunting ACCIDENT. The "technical" legal violation of a $7 upland bird stamp, which he was unaware of and has paid. We also need to hit back hard about Whittington's private health info - the Press is not entitled to know all that about him.
1 posted on 02/14/2006 11:29:21 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3
I thought about this as well the other day.
2 posted on 02/14/2006 11:30:23 AM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: clawrence3

This seems like a good place to post that Aaron Burr was actually the grandson of the great American theologian/philospher Jonathan Edwards. Very few people know this.


3 posted on 02/14/2006 11:30:46 AM PST by Borges
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To: clawrence3

Hamilton threw his shot away. He fired at a nearby tree, leaving himself at Burr's mercy. Burr, then shot Hamilton in cold blood.

It was no "gentleman's duel".


4 posted on 02/14/2006 11:31:18 AM PST by iPod Shuffle
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To: clawrence3

I say bring back grudge dueling...with off track betting...

Cheney vs Kerry

Shotguns with quail shot at 50 paces (and full chokes)


5 posted on 02/14/2006 11:31:39 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit our sister..but we knew just what to do...we gathered rocks and squashed her!)
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To: clawrence3
I'm pretty sure that the Vice President and Mr. Whittington were not, I repeat, not dueling with shotguns at ten paces--as cool as it may sound.
6 posted on 02/14/2006 11:32:03 AM PST by RichInOC ("...And there's Adam Clymer, that major league [anus] from the New York Times." "Yeah...big time.")
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To: clawrence3

The libbies are licking their chops hoping that Mr Whittington dies so they can brand Cheney a murderer. Get well soon Mr Whittington. Our prayers are with you.


7 posted on 02/14/2006 11:32:57 AM PST by Buffettfan
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To: clawrence3
Where is Zell Miller when we need him?
8 posted on 02/14/2006 11:33:16 AM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: iPod Shuffle

Burr is a POS who killed the true genius of the American Founding.


9 posted on 02/14/2006 11:34:32 AM PST by colorado tanker (We need more "chicken-bleep Democrats" in the Senate!)
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To: clawrence3
Two words--- "Vince Foster"
10 posted on 02/14/2006 11:35:59 AM PST by txroadkill
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To: tallhappy

Let's pray the press does not make Cheney into the next Aaron Burr (or worse, considering Cheney's OWN medical condition).


11 posted on 02/14/2006 11:37:50 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: Borges

That was in the (full article) link above : )


12 posted on 02/14/2006 11:38:18 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: iPod Shuffle

I was always taught Hamilton was simply not a very good marksman - thanks for the info.


13 posted on 02/14/2006 11:38:58 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3

Argh!


14 posted on 02/14/2006 11:39:50 AM PST by Borges
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To: Buffettfan
Well, FRiends, the libs have already gotten to the Wikipedia entry and have tied Cheney to Burr:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Burr_Duel

How predictable.
15 posted on 02/14/2006 11:39:50 AM PST by Cyclopean Squid (History is a work in progress)
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To: joesnuffy

Cheney vs. Edwards would be cooler. And forget guns; a chainsaw duel would be SO much cooler.


16 posted on 02/14/2006 11:40:09 AM PST by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: colorado tanker
Burr is a POS who killed the true genius of the American Founding.

Hamilton may have been a genius in many ways but he was a little SOB to many. He repeatedly insulted Burr and would then recant when pressed, appologizing profusely. After several interations of the insult/appology cycle Burr finally had enough. Hamilton's NY Post was much closer to today New York Times in making very damning claims that were later retracted in small print well away from the front page. Burr is an interesting figure and one of many that have suffered over the years thanks to Thomas Jefferson's hand. but in the case of shoot Alex Hamilton, he was probably more than justified.

17 posted on 02/14/2006 11:44:55 AM PST by pikachu (I must be be built upside down -- my nose runs and my feet smell!)
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To: clawrence3

Uh.. Burr MEANT to shoot Hamilton and Hamilton was definitely not a friend or "hunting buddy".

There are plenty of comparisons that can be drawn by a cliff-notes take on history, but before we get too worked up, let's get the fact in order.


18 posted on 02/14/2006 11:46:30 AM PST by brothers4thID (Being lectured by Ted Kennedy on ethics is not unlike being lectured on dating protocol by Ted Bundy)
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To: Cyclopean Squid

I don't trust anything on that site without checking it out - at least the entry is under "Trivia" - I am going to look into THIS entry as well:

"Years later, [Burr] returned to New York City to practice law and was tried and acquitted for his role in the duel. He died in 1836 in Staten Island, New York, having never apologized to Hamilton's family or shown any remorse for ending Hamilton's life.

Perhaps the best account of the event was catalogued in the writings of a local stable-boy, Jake Simons, who secretly watched the event from afar. His journal was later published, although his writings and record of his business are now lost."


19 posted on 02/14/2006 11:46:30 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: brothers4thID

I definitely want all the facts in order - you are mistaken if you think I am drawing ANY comparisons between these two events.


20 posted on 02/14/2006 11:47:41 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3
Aaron Burr's fortunes may have waned after the duel, but his great- great- (etc.) nephew did OK. Richard Burr is now my Senator. The linked article, written during the 2004 campaign, was rather pessimistic on his chances, but he actually won rather comfortably.
21 posted on 02/14/2006 11:47:42 AM PST by southernnorthcarolina (I've upped my standards! Up yours!)
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To: Buffettfan
The libbies are licking their chops hoping that Mr Whittington dies so they can brand Cheney a murderer. Get well soon Mr Whittington. Our prayers are with you.

Jack Bauer, please go guard Whittington's room!
22 posted on 02/14/2006 11:48:32 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it; Right is right even if no one does it.)
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To: pikachu

Let's just hope the press is not as vicious toward Cheney as the Federalists were to Burr ; )


23 posted on 02/14/2006 11:48:53 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: Kerretarded

I certainly hope there is SOME kind of federal protection at that room.


24 posted on 02/14/2006 11:49:42 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: pikachu

Not to mention that Hamilton was in truth what the DUmmies claim Rove is--a powermad manipulator bent on controlling the entire workings of government and making himself king in all but name. Gotta like the guy.


25 posted on 02/14/2006 11:49:51 AM PST by Cyclopean Squid (History is a work in progress)
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To: clawrence3

"call us Aaron Burr the way we're droppin' Hamiltons!"


26 posted on 02/14/2006 11:51:28 AM PST by isom35
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To: Borges; firebrand; Clemenza
There is a restaurant in NYC named One if by Land, Two if by Sea, in Greenwich Village. It at one time was a home to Aaron Burr. I had dinner there this past year and inside is so much memorabilia including documents and such.

Besides that the food and service for my group was awesome. A Beef Wellington to die for.

Nice little bit of history served with dinner.
27 posted on 02/14/2006 11:56:22 AM PST by alisasny (GO TEAM USA and all freedom loving counties. TURINO 2006)
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To: pikachu
Hamilton fully participated in the rough and tumble of polemics in those days, as did Burr. I fault Hamilton for dueling with a scoundrel like Burr.
28 posted on 02/14/2006 11:58:14 AM PST by colorado tanker (We need more "chicken-bleep Democrats" in the Senate!)
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To: iPod Shuffle

He didn't throw it away intentionally. Biographies and other research I read 15 years ago proved that Hamilton had the hair trigger set on the gun to get his shot off first. The result was that the gun went off early. There is still some question as to whether or not this was considered "cheating" at the time.


29 posted on 02/14/2006 12:02:32 PM PST by ZGuy
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To: clawrence3

I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than ride acorss a bridge with Ted Kennedy.

Not mine - Heard it from a caller on local radio yesterday...


30 posted on 02/14/2006 12:07:32 PM PST by HeadOn (I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than ride acorss a bridge with Ted Kennedy)
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To: iPod Shuffle
It was no "gentleman's duel".

Actually, it was. A duelist who chose to intentionally miss was thereby voluntarily taking the chance that his opponent would not choose to do the same. A duelist had no moral or ethical obligation to miss simply because his opponent did.

Were this not true, any lousy shot could just fire his pistol into the sky and thereby obligate his opponent to do the same. Kind of takes the point out of dueling.

31 posted on 02/14/2006 12:09:50 PM PST by Restorer
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To: ZGuy

Found it. The article that got me interested in this was "Pistols shed light on famed duel" from the November, 1976 Smithsonian magazine.


32 posted on 02/14/2006 12:11:03 PM PST by ZGuy
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To: Cyclopean Squid
Well, FRiends, the libs have already gotten to the Wikipedia entry and have tied Cheney to Burr:

Where? I searched for "Cheney" and didn't find anything on that page.

33 posted on 02/14/2006 12:11:09 PM PST by KarlInOhio (In this year's White House play, Henry VI part II, VP Cheney got the role of Dick the Butcher.)
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To: ZGuy

I believe you are correct. As the story goes, way back in 1976, as the country was celebrating its bicentennial, the two pistols were being examined before being placed in the Smithsonian. Upon close inspection, Hamilton's pistol was rigged with a hair trigger, requiring only 1 to 1.5 pounds of pressure to pull, unlike the 10 to 15 pounds of pull required to fire a normal (unaltered) pistol. As a result, a duelist would have an incredible advantage over his opponent. In this case, it seems, Mr. Hamilton held the gun a bit too tight and triggered it before he had aimed, hitting the leaves above Burr's head. So, it would seem that although the fix was in, Mr. Burr's luck overcame it. Hamilton's nobility is, in my mind at least, somewhat suspect.


34 posted on 02/14/2006 12:15:22 PM PST by the lone haranguer
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To: Cyclopean Squid

Burr wanted to make himself king of the entire Louisiana Purchase - hardly a difference there.


35 posted on 02/14/2006 12:36:23 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: KarlInOhio

Down at the bottom, under trivia.


36 posted on 02/14/2006 12:37:11 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: KarlInOhio
Well, FRiends, the libs have already gotten to the Wikipedia entry and have tied Cheney to Burr:

Where? I searched for "Cheney" and didn't find anything on that page.


hmmm. Down the memory hole for now. It was under a "Trivia" section at the bottom. It seems someone erased it. I'm sure it will be back later.
37 posted on 02/14/2006 12:44:16 PM PST by Cyclopean Squid (History is a work in progress)
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To: clawrence3

It's gone now. Interesting bit about Burr and the Louisiana purchase. I've been meaning to read more on the Founding fathers and get some more knowledge of American history. I've had the Chernow Hamilton bio on my Amazon wish list forever.


38 posted on 02/14/2006 12:45:55 PM PST by Cyclopean Squid (History is a work in progress)
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To: Cyclopean Squid; KarlInOhio
The 'trivia" was fairly innocuous - something like "On February 11, 2006, Richard B. Cheney became the second sitting Vice-President to shoot a human being . . ." Of course, it was a subtle attempt to make the connection to Burr - there was nothing factually incorrect about the entry.
39 posted on 02/14/2006 1:00:54 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3

40 posted on 02/14/2006 1:22:16 PM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: clawrence3

Yes, it was innocuous. It wasn't so bad as to be removed. For the record, it was not I who erased it from existence.


41 posted on 02/14/2006 1:58:48 PM PST by Cyclopean Squid (History is a work in progress)
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To: Cyclopean Squid

Nor I - must be that Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy ; )


42 posted on 02/14/2006 2:00:11 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3

Cheney should have taken a shot at Leahy?


43 posted on 02/14/2006 2:02:02 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: clawrence3; alisasny; Pharmboy
I've never been to One if by Land, Two if by Sea, although my father has on two occasions.

I have been to the Fraunces Tavern, which, although largely a replica, is where GW said goodbye to his staff. Its near Federal Hall and the food is not bad (just go in the evening to avoid the school crowds).

There is also a piano bar in the West Village called Marie's Crisis. You would otherwise not give it a second look, but the building that hosts this bar is none other than the house that Thomas Paine lived in during his New York years.

Let's also not forget Hamilton Park in Weehawken where "the duel" took place. Clemenza took a walk through that park with his Nonno (who lived next door in North Bergen) as a four year old.

44 posted on 02/14/2006 2:02:29 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: pikachu
Gore Vidal, a descendant of Burr, has an interesting view in his book, "Burr " it is that Hamilton and Burr were personally very much alike, that in killing Hamilton Burr was killing his mirror image. No doubt that Hamilton was jealous of Burr, whose career was rising as Hamilton's was descending. But the more interesting dynamic is the involvement of Jefferson, who was positively Machiavellian in his prosecution of Burr. He would have succeeded except for the intervention of John Marshall. Marshall was Jefferson (2nd?) cousin and from a distance the two men were so physically alike that one was often mistaken for the other. They also cordially detested one another. Marshall, a war veteran, regarded Jefferson as a coward for having fled his post as governor during the British invasion. Anyway, Marshall saved Burr's butt by holding the government to the letter of the Constitution. Nonetheless Burr had to flee the country to avoid assassination (It was rumored).
45 posted on 02/14/2006 2:14:07 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: clawrence3
A hunting accident is a far cry for a many years old feud, which culminated in a duel to the death.

Burr was a slimy, smarmy, nasty CYLMER of the first order; not to mention a political opportunist, backstabber, and all around hateful cur. He and Hamilton were NOT friends.

V.P. Cheney and the man whom he accidentally shot are friends, they aren't political RIVALS, they were hunting quail together, and this wasn't a duel to the death; it wasn't even a duel.

46 posted on 02/14/2006 2:21:13 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Thank you for posting all the differences - those differences are exactly why I started this thread - see above.


47 posted on 02/14/2006 2:23:01 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: RobbyS

Unfortunately, dueling is illegal in all 50 States now ; )


48 posted on 02/14/2006 2:24:04 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: pikachu
I suggest that you read up on Aaron Burr.

For all of the calumny you've heaped upon Hamilton, undeservedly so, Burr makes Alex look like a saint! Even Jefferson, whose V.P. Burr was, didn't like him; but found him "useful".

49 posted on 02/14/2006 3:00:26 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Clemenza
Marie's Crisis ( THE ONE ON GROVE STREET? ) is in Tom Paine's house? I didn't know that. Thanks.
50 posted on 02/14/2006 3:07:13 PM PST by nopardons
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