Posted on 02/14/2006 4:55:43 PM PST by Eaglewatcher
1> This isn't a VAT.
2> The FairTax makes the cost of government transparent to anybody who buys something. If that doesn't get on everybody's nerves after a while, I don't know what will. That frustration leads to an electorate who hates government spending.
Like Somalia or the Sudan? Oh yeah, those are the electorates we want to emulate. /sarcasm
Yep they will if they can. Indeed they're already hitting internet sales with sales tax. If we do nothing, we WILL get both.
If you look at HR 25, it:
eliminates payroll tax
eliminates withholding
eliminates the entire income tax code
destroys all existing income tax records save those of delinquents
makes the taxation of income illegal
defunds the irs
HR 25 replaces the revenue with a single rate point of sale tax on new goods for retail consumption (not business to business purchase) and services.
Now, the income tax could reappear, but to do so,
-An entire income tax code would have to be written, negotiated, rewritten, renegotiated etc. Anyway, who would propose reinstituting the income tax?!
-they'd have to get individuals and business to begin the withholding process again.... who will go along?
-they'd have to organize and fund another IRS. Another popular move eh?
And since making the taxation of income illegal is insufficient to satisfy most folks, there is an amendment that does 2 things: it repeals the 16th AND makes the taxation of income unconstitutional. Yipee.
So if you're worried about getting hit with an income AND sales tax, you're not alone - I'm worried too! And I see that without something like HR 25, we're gonna get it.
We currently enjoy zero protection against being taxed with both. But passing HR 25 makes it a lot more difficult.
Are you trying to justify big government spending?
Last I checked, FR was for conservatives, and nothing defines conservatism like limited government. Not accusing you, just be careful what you're really defending.
No, there is no individual filing. Only business will file.
The monthly prebate is sent to ANY family who are legal residents with valid SSNs who are willing to provide said valid SSNs and swear to their validity.
I'll get the prebate, Bill Gates will, everyone. The prebate has the effect of "untaxing" necessity level spending for everyone - not just poor people.
It's analogous to today's standard deduction I guess.
If you are asserting that sales taxes are more volatile than income taxes you're wrong. Historically, consumption is more stable than income - downturn or not.
American goods competing against imports without the embedded cost of corporate income taxes.Foreign purchasers won't have to pay tax on American products. Corporations won't have to pay taxes, but we American consumers will...
That sounds a lot like a subsidy for corporations and foreign consumers to me.
HR 25 is not what Canada or France or anyone has.
Which is why we should avoid a VAT - did you know the flat income tax is a VAT?
BTW HR 25 (the nrst proposal in Congress now) is not a VAT. It is the polar opposite of a VAT.
on new items only... buy used and reduce your tax level...
teeman
eliminate both the IRS and the income tax system
Riiight. Who is going to pay for the unemployment/welfare for all those IRS thugs...../sarc>
i think the key to the fair tax is getting the masses of workers wanting their whole check... it should be an easy thing to do... "Keep your whole check!!" Believe me they "all" want that.
Ovrtaxt and Pricipled are the "self appointed gods of fairtax" on FR. If they don't have an answer for you, some tinpot dictator hasn't invented the question yet.
Business has costs that will be eliminated. The amounts they're paying workers, which include income and employee payroll aren't going away - unless the employee agrees to it!
What is going away from POV of business:
employer payroll tax
income tax
compliance costs (likely that compliance costs will reduce by 90%).
Estimates vary, but I don't think I'll be flamed for an average of 5% can come off of prices. Course all businesses are different - just a nice round number.
Now, that's not all they'll save, because whatever they buy for business use will not be taxed. So each supplier from whom they buy will have the same savings of payroll, income tax and comliance costs- and each of their suppliers will have the same savings and so on.
So maybe prices can come down at the retail level 10% - again I don't think I'll get flamed too bad for that (these threads get wicked). Then, your net will become your gross pay. That could be a little if you make your money somewhere besides wages - but these type of people usually have pretax inestments - or your net could increase 25% by receiving payroll taxes and income taxes that will no longer be withheld.
All in all, your money will buy about the same as now. Pries may be a bit higher but you'll have a bit more money with which to buy stuff. You'll still pay taxes, but not by being withheld - Hope this makes sense. I'm putting on my flame suit!
No, I would like to see the government budget severely cut back. But there are essential government functions, like defense, that I do not want to see damaged. The United States of pre-1913 would be a United States that could not defend itself. I think the general statistic is that going into WWI the U.S. military was the 14th largest in the world (after Romania in 13th place). We can't turn back the clock and erase a whole century of history. We have enemies now that we didn't have then. There are plenty of self-proclaimed "conservatives" who would like to see the U.S. degenerate into anarchy where everyone flees into the hills and has an armory in the basement to fight off intruders. I'm not one of those. I think we have created a unique place in the world where opportunity is unlimited and nothing or no one can keep you back if you believe in yourself.
The way to curb government spending is to vote out the politicians who can't control themselves. It's a long process. It won't happen overnight, just like the growth of government didn't happen overnight. I think you should reform your institutions that work, not go on a wholesale slaughter of them simply because you believe a part of them is out of control.
"What happened in 1913 that made spending increase without bound?"
They changed the language in the constitution to permit direct taxation of the American people along with the "income" tax amendment. Then sometime later they instituted the "wage" tax payroll deduction. All that opened the flood gates. States rights went into the dumper.
That's why demand for US made goods will increase. That's good, Willie.
Currently, foreign purchasers DO have to pay taxes and tax costs that are built into US made prices. That's one of the reasons we have a hard time competing in the world market. I don't know of another industrialized nation that does not remove its domestic tax costs from its exports. It's hard enough for us to compete against near zero labor costs - and then we have to keep tax costs in prices too?
Having an open mind is all it takes to learn.
The way to curb government spending is to vote out the politicians who can't control themselves. It's a long process. It won't happen overnight, just like the growth of government didn't happen overnight.
50 years of wild-spending-democrats republicans people too stupid to do anything but run for public office didn't have a thing to do with that, now did they.... ???
Guess what kind of miscreants are steering HR25 and SR25 ?????
This is something you need to learn... I didnt realize it till last year... everytime 'anyone' buys in the marketplace, they are paying federal taxes----->FOR THE CORPORATION. Corporations pass all taxes on to the consumer. in other words ... the poor and middleclass pay taxes for everyone. with the fair tax they would only pay Fed Tax if they buy something new.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.