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Steve Fuller and the Hidden Agenda of Social Constructivism
Talk Reason ^ | 2/19/2006 | Norman Levitt

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:54:51 PM PST by jennyp

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To: jennyp

I just submitted a paper for a conference that criticizes the academic left's techniques of defending ID in the classroom. I tried my best to hide my own actual political views, but I have a feeling I won't have many friends left after I present it.


41 posted on 02/21/2006 8:20:51 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Creationism Is Not Conservative!)
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To: longshadow

Perfectly consistent, though. The left continually fails to actually study or try to understand economics, international relations, or public policy, yet continues to criticize them and offer so-called "alternatives".


42 posted on 02/21/2006 8:23:27 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Creationism Is Not Conservative!)
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To: lonestar67

Evolution is indeed falsifiable, but nothing has been found that could possibly falsify it. Nothing short of finding real-life Shmoos would be enough to seriously damage it.


43 posted on 02/21/2006 8:25:16 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Creationism Is Not Conservative!)
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To: ml1954
That's a ridiculous statement.

Yes and no. I don't have time now, as I have an aerobics class I need to get to, but if I have time, I will explain further later tonight. FULL DISCLOSURE: I am a rhetorical scholar, although my cognitivist worldview flies in the face of the constructivist one. So do my politics, needless to say.

44 posted on 02/21/2006 8:33:29 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Creationism Is Not Conservative!)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

I've pretty much stayed out of the other thread. Just too nasty.

60 years ago our Creo friends would have been Democrats and followed WJB down the primrose path. Whether the Democrats left them or they left the Democrats is a tough question, but the philosophical underpinnings of Creos and the left are remarkably similar.

- The appeal to authority
- The "I have the answer for all problems and any who disagees is evil" stance.
- Those who are right have the right to force those who are not or at least threaten them.

Is this an inherent problem with most religions, and especially Christianity?


45 posted on 02/21/2006 8:38:11 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: jennyp

Much better than anything else that's cooking now.


46 posted on 02/21/2006 8:38:45 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: RightWingAtheist

I am excited to see that you are a rhetorical scholar. That is also my profession. I think your statement is basically fair. That is the statement I keep reminding my creationist friends to keep in mind because I do get a sense at times that evolution is being revered more as a creed than a disclosure of the scientific process. If one is indeed open to the prospects of a theory of evolutioin being falsified, then it remains in a defensible domain of science.

In certain practical rhetorical functions it may necessarily be a creed but it is those functions that creationists, IDers, or various theist stripes are justly complaining about.


47 posted on 02/21/2006 8:40:58 AM PST by lonestar67
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To: RightWingAtheist

It didn't used to be this way. When did reason and the Left part company?


48 posted on 02/21/2006 8:57:23 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: RightWingAtheist
...I have a feeling I won't have many friends left after I present it.

You will here.

49 posted on 02/21/2006 10:52:37 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: furball4paws; Doctor Stochastic

the creos and the left both also push for affirmative action, and put their feelings above observation and logic.

I wonder how much Soros et al give to the DI?


50 posted on 02/21/2006 10:54:34 AM PST by Virginia-American
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To: furball4paws

Almost all religions; not especially with Christianity.

Nixon's "Southern Strategy" brought many big-government southern Democrats into GOP. At that time, the "litmus test" was anti-Communism. Political parties are temporary confederations, not ideological organizations (at least in the US; it's somewhat different in Europe.) There may be a few dozen or so policies of interest, but correlations among views held on issues are weak. This leads to the problem of "linkage" such that at the present time, being for tax cuts means being against evolution, (Before Dover, of course), or being for smaller government means supporting "no child left behind."


51 posted on 02/21/2006 10:59:29 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: lonestar67; PatrickHenry

"Evolution is falsifiable."

All science is falsifiable - that's what makes it science.

Religion is indisputable.


52 posted on 02/21/2006 11:35:18 AM PST by Sunnyflorida ((Elections Matter)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Political parties are temporary confederations, not ideological organizations (at least in the US; it's somewhat different in Europe.) There may be a few dozen or so policies of interest, but correlations among views held on issues are weak.

In all my reading of American history, I can find only one constant that divides the two parties -- protectionism. We've always got a party on each side of that issue. All the other issues flutter around, and attach themselves to one party or the other.

Of course, the no tariff (or no-tariff) party usually has a degree of intellectual consistency, favoring related free-enterprise notions like less regulation, lower taxes, etc. And those issues tend to be popular in rural areas, where there's a lot of social conservatism, hence the accretion of such ideas into the free-trade party.

But trying to put all the issues of a party together into one coherent package is hopeless.

53 posted on 02/21/2006 12:20:00 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I meant: Of course, the no low tariff (or no-tariff)
54 posted on 02/21/2006 12:21:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: furball4paws
When did reason and the Left part company?

I think it has a lot to do with the theory that human nature is genetically hardwired to a degree and people's behavior can only be molded so far. This spells disaster for any type of social conditioning program that attempts to downplay the element of self-interest - an obstacle to the left's ideal world where everyone works for his neighbor's benefit.

Of course capitalism works because it has a realistic view of basic human nature and doesnt try to pretend otherwise.

55 posted on 02/21/2006 2:54:43 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: jennyp
The ultimate aim of the ID movement is not only to replace secular science by a zombie simulacrum deferential to fundamentalist myth, but further to exploit that anticipated achievement in order, ultimately, to turn this country into a fundamentalist Christian commonwealth. This is perfectly clear to anyone who has paid attention to the pronouncements of ID godfather Phillip E. Johnson.

Neatly put.

56 posted on 02/22/2006 6:33:50 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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