The Atheist Foxhole (Rumsfeld "marginalized" religion in military)

American Spectator ^ | Feb 06 | Angelo Codevilla

[wickedpinto]

Thats life :)

Bedtime now, If you respond, I will catch in the morning.

Night hoss.

[Sweetjustusnow]

If there is a Christian god? he should still accept me, because I accept the teachings of Jesus, though I do not name him god or prophet.

If God is so fickle that he can't accept that? then F him.

You do not understand Christianity. The gift of God through Christ is Grace. Not by anything that you do. It is an acceptance of a Power greater than yourself and the acknowledgment of such, and that 'such' is God through Jesus Christ our Savior "nobody comes to the Father unless they come through me" said Christ. It is indeed declaring God's story as true and faithful and the only road to salvation.

[RobbyS]

Sounds more like the job description of a recreation officer. Of course, many judges have forgotten the meaning of the term" free exercise of religion."

[Sweetjustusnow]

"78 percent Christian"

"As people become more educated, they tend to be less religious."

So under 20% are not religious because they have become 'more educated'.


Bwaaahhhhaaaaaaa

[Hoplite]

Not those damn belt buckles again.

They refer to some Viking mythology the Nazis appropriated:

Drei kleine Kittens,
verloren sie ihre Handschuhe,
und sie fingen an zu schreien,
die liebe OH- Mutter,
wir sich fürchten traurig,
denen wir unsere Handschuhe verloren haben.

The text on the buckle is a shortended version of "I have my mittens"/"Gott Mituns" as the original "Ich habe meine Handschuhe" was too long to fit on the buckle and entitle the Viking kitten stormtrooper bearing it to any pie.

[Torie]

Is theism among the ranks necessary for a lean mean principled killing machine? I ask, you decide. The smart answer is that the answer is complex and opaque and depends on a lot of other factors. Just a little hint at the right road on this one. :)

[LiteKeeper]

Sounds more like the job description of a recreation officer

How in the world do you get that from what I said?

[willyd]

Your perspective is all wrong. You cannot name Jesus the son of God or a prophet and that is the point that I was trying to make. As far as God being accepting and/or fickle, this is another issue of perspective. God is was and will always be. We as humans tend to give him human traights and characteristics (as I just did) in an attempt to make God more familiar to us. Even assigning a gender to God is an example of this. In my opinion it is blasphemous to assign human traights to the creator because it diminishes the perfection that is our God. I think religions are mans' attempts to interpret and pass on his perfect word as well as a way to control the masses in the absence of government or rule through strength. I think you might find out that you have the capacity to believe in a higher being albeit maybe not in the traditional form. I would suggest that the relationship is important regardless of what form it takes.

[Notwithstanding]

I listed no religion on my official record despite my being a devout Catholic.

I did it for privacy reasons.

I know many others who do the same.

[M203M4]

It is from Prussia's Order of the Crown (specifically, the Star of the Order, circa 1860's). Whatever the prior origins of the phrase, its meaning by the late 1800's was divorced from Viking mythology.

Gott Mit Uns translates DIRECTLY in German to mean "God With Us". Hitler appropriated it as a "peace offering "of sorts to German Christians, whom he had mostly pissed off previously (much of the resistance within Germany during the buildup to WWII was lead by Christian groups).

The nazis cared only about power - it was their only "principle". They used whatever propaganda they could to increase their standing. Hitler had deep disdain for any organization that threatened the nazi party - from the atheists and Freethinker groups, to devout Christians. Their aim was to break the non-party support structures and then reintegrate. Recall "Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" (Children, Church, Kitchen). He used the Enabling Act to dissolve particularly meddlesome churches and outlawed most atheistic and freethinking groups.

So yes, the nazis held contempt for devout Christians (and everyone else who threatened them, including atheists). And they didn't see themselves as, nor where they, "progressive". The totalitarian mindset only cares about control.

Hey, I coulda just called a Godwin. :)

[M203M4]

I should also add that Hitler wasn't the first to reintroduce "Gott Mit Uns" in the 20th Century. They pulled the same stunt in WWI. Give people who would otherwise disagree something to rally around.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Although German is my mother tongue I am not able to understand this:

Drei kleine Kittens, verloren sie ihre Handschuhe, und sie fingen an zu schreien, die liebe OH- Mutter, wir sich fürchten traurig, denen wir unsere Handschuhe verloren haben.

I does not give any sense. Could you translate it for me please?

[TheCrusader]

"As people become more educated, they tend to be less religious."

"Pure atheistic arrogance and hubris"

Yes, but none-the-less true for some people, especially in the sciences. Their education puffs them up like prideful balloons and they find it gloriously uplifting to worship themselves and their own perceived intelligence.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Gott Mit Uns translates DIRECTLY in German to mean "God With Us".

Yep! This is perfectly correct.

Hitler appropriated it as a "peace offering "of sorts to German Christians, whom he had mostly pissed off previously (much of the resistance within Germany during the buildup to WWII was lead by Christian groups).

He did not need to make a "peace offering" to German christians since he had close contact to both churches from the very beginning of his career as Reichskanzler.

With the Catholic church he fixed a treaty, the so called "Reichskonkordat" which give them the possibility to collect a so called "church tax" in Germany. Until today this is the most important financial basement of the Vatican. Pecunia non olet. Nothing new since Vespasian in Rome. There were many Catholics from the bottom of the church who had the balls to fight Hitler, but its leaders failed to give a adequate answer.

The situation within the Lutheran Church (Evangelische Kirche) was even much more critical. They founded a organisation called "Deutsche Christen" that tried to prove that Jesus was an aryan. Do I have to say more? Like in the Catholic church there were some who understood the true message of Christendom like Bonhoeffer, but they were very few.

It is a sad fact that German churches failed completely to find a answer to such a crude ideology like national socialism. Being devoted to their political "leaders" they followed blind all orders of Hitler. It is a shame that the atheists organized a much broader resistance than the Lutheran churches in particular.

The meaning of the second headline is: "Christ is the deadly enemy of the jews".

[kalee]

ping

[xzins]

This is an excellent article that recognizes that the rules until recently imposed on military chaplains and military Christians amounted to the creation of a new religion....an establishment, if you will.

That is the reason the Air Force and the DoD backed off. If they had felt they were on solid legal ground, they would have stubbornly stuck to their guns.

As with any "establishers," they intended to control the speech of those outside the official church. They told them HOW they could pray. Huge legal mistake.

There is no way that any military leader would invite an expert from any other field and then tell him what he was permitted to say. It would be foolish to ask for the professional input of an expert in nerve gas, but command him ahead of time that he couldn't mention that it is deadly.

[LowCountryJoe]

It is such a shame that many men have perverted religion to the point where you went from seeker of the truth to someone who came away from the search not believing.

I believe (and have faith) that it is entirely possible that your search may not be over. If there is a God [and I believe that there is but I write "if" for your benefit so as to not be off putting], He will be the only One who sits in judgment of you...it will not be members of an Internet message board who are offended by what you write on the subject.

If your [never ending] search ever leads you back to the bible, may I suggest that you just stay with the four canonized gospels. But also read the gnostic gospels that are not found in the bible. Either nine of Christ's followers were full of crap and handed down bogus accounts of what Jesus had done or they passed along the truth. Many of those nine passed along these accounts at tremendous risk and peril to themselves...most people will not do these kinds of things; think about that for a while and it may spark and interest in reading Mark again.

[P3pilotJAX]

As people become more educated, they tend to be less religious.

Pure atheistic arrogance and hubris.

I think it is somewhat true. As I became more educated I started to wonder why a God, who won't prove his existence without a doubt, would want us to worship him or go to hell. I still believe in God, but I am starting to reject the dogma of the Catholic church.

[mlc9852]

"As people become more educated, they tend to be less religious."

I know quite a few people with doctorates who are very religious. I have found less-educated people are less religious. But I wouldn't expect to hear that from a confused atheist like yourself.

[mlc9852]

You obviously haven't studied the Bible very thoroughly if you have arrived at your "conclusions" as you say by studying the Bible. Remember where the Bible says "There are none good"? Believe what you wish but know why you believe it.