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History Swings Both Ways (Mark Steyn On Islamists Not Into The "Brokeback Mountain" Thing Alert)
Western Standard ^ | 02/27/06 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 03/05/2006 4:26:31 AM PST by goldstategop

Well, it's true that the average 25-year-old does not feel about homosexuality the way his great-grandfather felt at that age. In that sense, there is indeed a "rising tide." But the salient feature of tides is that they go out again. Whatever their appeals to virtue, inevitablist theories of history are always the weakest--the notion that progress is a ratchet effect, moving irreversibly in one direction. On September 10, 2001, for example, not many commentators in North America or Europe paid much attention to the views of Islamic lobby groups. The idea that whether something does or does not cause offence to Muslims would be the early 21st century's principal political dynamic in Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Britain would have seemed absurd to most Europeans a mere five years ago. Things change very suddenly.

(Excerpt) Read more at westernstandard.ca ...


TOPICS: Canada; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: brokebackmountain; canada; homophobia; homosexualagenda; islam; islamofascism; islamophobia; marksteyn; moralabsolutes; steyn; victimhood; westernstandard
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Liberals comfort themselves into thinking gay love, as fetishized in this year's Oscar-nominated movie, "Brokeback Mountain" is an irreversible cultural fact. The problem is Islamists beg to differ and they're homophobic. For they have no problem killing gays as with killing Christians and Jews. Suddenly, history begins to look a lot different. And after the Mohammed Cartoons dust-up in Europe, suddenly Muslim opinion begins to matter a great deal in Western societies. So the notion gays are riding on the winning side of history is a refutable one - considering they can't reproduce and Muslims are reproducing. Whose values will determine the course of the world in the 21st century? Mark Steyn would venture to observe its not Nicole Langlois or her repressed fantasies about Stephen Harper and Alberta being powerless in the face of the cultural tide. For Western liberalism is being torn apart between its sympathies for gay rights and its fear of offending Muslims. Today, "Brokeback Mountain" rather than signaling the remorseless triumph of liberal values in a modern world is more likely to be seen as the epitaph to the twilight of the fin de siecle of Western cultural decadence.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

1 posted on 03/05/2006 4:26:38 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

The man who acquires the audio visual material at our local public library using his position to promote homosexuality. Seems that way, and all these new movies are on a shelf about 3 foot high where all the little heads can see them.


2 posted on 03/05/2006 4:31:21 AM PST by HankReardon
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To: goldstategop
The problem is Islamists beg to differ

I beg to differ also, and I'm not religious at all
The whole notion of homosexuality as a large feature of any living system makes about as much sense to me as cannibalism - They are both negative genetic traits and produce no offspring.

Sorry, I am not into genetic suicide.

3 posted on 03/05/2006 4:37:18 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: goldstategop

Somehow liberals assume too much. They assume, for instance, since most union members support minimum wage hike (liberal cause), the same members must support gay-marriage, abortion, quick pull-out from Iraq (all other liberal causes) as well.

Now, most Islamo-facists are anti US, anti Judeo-Christianity. Hence, the Liberals think, they must be pro gay marriage as well. Or that the Muslims are into multi-culturalism (Liberals bought the Islamo-facists propaganda in the West, that is, Muslims support 'multiculturalism'. Well, they do, as long as it only applies to Western countries so that the Muslims can do whatever they want there in the name of PC-ness).


4 posted on 03/05/2006 4:41:44 AM PST by paudio
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To: goldstategop

Are the libs hoping to get a publicity stunt out of Muslims rioting over Bareback Broken Colon on Top Of A Mountain??


5 posted on 03/05/2006 4:44:53 AM PST by Dallas59 ((“You love life, while we love death"( Al-Qaeda & Democratic Party))
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To: goldstategop

The funniest thing in the world is watching Hollywood, cheering on the terrorists because they think it'll hurt Bush, celebrating World Gay Day at the Oscars tonight. They seem to be blissfully ignorant of what will happen to them if the terrs win. The Bush they hate so much is actually preserving their lives as well as everyone else but they are so high on drugs they can't seem to put two and two together (unless the two are same sex).


6 posted on 03/05/2006 4:48:37 AM PST by McGavin999 (I suggest the UAE form a Joint Venture Partnership with Halliburton & Wal-Mart)
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To: paudio; bill1952

In my life I have known some muslims, usually through business contacts. I know what Im going to post might sound anecdotal, but this is what I have always heard from them without exception. The muslims that seem at first glance to be somewhat moderate go ape when the USA govt support of gay sex gets in front of their eyes. I have clearly seen a change of color come over their faces when they speak of this. Some have told me that one reason they absolutely hate the USA is because they think the USA promotes gay culture. Take it as you will.


7 posted on 03/05/2006 4:49:15 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: goldstategop

The decadence of the Western world, particularly homosexuality, and how it's glorified in the sewers of hollywood, are just grist for the muslim world's mill and justifies for them, every act of terrorism they commit. Liberalism is the cancer of our nation, our embarrassment and shame. It invites upon us the hatred and venom of our enemy. We fight Islamofascism encumbered by the dead weight of the liberal, leftist abcess in our midst.


8 posted on 03/05/2006 4:50:37 AM PST by pallmallman
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To: goldstategop

Wasn't it called 'Greek love' at one time, and is what is supposed to have led to the fall of Greece? History shows that liberal/conservative is a pendulum, and neither stays 'on top' forever. But as a society becomes more 'liberal', it is on the downside part of the swing.


9 posted on 03/05/2006 4:55:07 AM PST by mathluv (Bushbot, Snowflake, Dittohead ---- Bring it on!!!)
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To: son of caesar

I can't see how they are wrong on that. - I feel much the same way, except that my enmity is directed at the socialist agenda for change that promotes any breakdown of Western values possible.

and I see it in the schools non stop.


10 posted on 03/05/2006 4:57:37 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: son of caesar
Iranian Homosexuals are hanged...



Muslims aren't too happy when they find the real thing......Being an "enlighten" homosexual isn't going to change their minds.
11 posted on 03/05/2006 4:59:11 AM PST by Dallas59 ((“You love life, while we love death"( Al-Qaeda & Democratic Party))
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To: bill1952

Im glad you responded the way you did. You and I agree. However, muslims dont necessarily differentiate between conervatives and liberals regarding this issue. They view it as in the big picture. Its enlightenting to speak to them when they feel they can speak freely at least on some issues. But honestly, imo, the more educated would overlook alot of disagreements with us, but the gay thing is a no go from the beginning. A few have told me that all gays in the middle east know they have to move to America, where gays are prized citizens.


12 posted on 03/05/2006 5:10:17 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: Dallas59

Yes thats quite a picture. I find it interesting that they are so annoyed with gays although their culture is replete with gayness. Iran in particular has a long history of gayness being an industry. Iran at one time used to prepare small boys for such behavior by modifying their rear sides. Think Africans with lip inserts an stuff like that and you get the picture. Iran used to insert ceramic plugs of various sizes in order to make the young boys more usefull. Sorry to be gross, but that is history. Marco Polo actually wrote about the practice.


13 posted on 03/05/2006 5:13:26 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: Dallas59
But I saw this same picture on another thread that claimed they were being hanged for smuggling beer. Any way to verify what these guys are really dying for?
14 posted on 03/05/2006 5:15:32 AM PST by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: son of caesar
they have to move to America, where gays are prized citizens.

yep


15 posted on 03/05/2006 5:16:44 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: son of caesar

Yikes!!


16 posted on 03/05/2006 5:17:25 AM PST by Dallas59 ((“You love life, while we love death"( Al-Qaeda & Democratic Party))
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To: starbase
ISNA

Two boys, one aged 18 and one underage minor, were lashed 228 times before being hung by Iranian authorities in the northeastern city of Mashad. Within hours of the execution, Members of Iran’s parliament expressed outrage, not for the deaths of the two young men, identified only by the the initials A.M. and M.A., but at journalists who reported the ages of those who were put to death. According to Iran Focus News, one member of parliament was dismayed that the focus was on the age of the boys "[I]Instead of paying tribute to the action of the judiciary, the media are mentioning the age of the hanged criminals and creating a commotion that harms the interests of the state." According to the same report, Ali Asgari, an elected deputy, supported the hanging of the two, saying "Whatever sentence is decreed by an Islamic penal system must be approved, unless proven otherwise."






17 posted on 03/05/2006 5:26:19 AM PST by Dallas59 ((“You love life, while we love death"( Al-Qaeda & Democratic Party))
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To: goldstategop

Homosexuality has now been explored completely, no doubt out of curiosity and the necessity of liberal culture to embrace "victims".

What should be ominous to the gay community itself, is that what we DIDN'T know about homosexuality, and has been revealed to us inadvertently in this onslaught via Hollywood, is the lack of dignity and humility within the community itself. There is not the slightest hesitancy to impose upon others, to selfishly demand our gaze at all times. Gay behavior now defines narcissism for us, and self-centeredness has become the community's most salient characteristic.

Outside of Hollywood, a state of boredom and tedium is near. It would be best for the gay community to consider a retreat. A return to cultural marginalization is on the horizon for gays unless they retreat; a return to the closet is not required, but their now elevated position in the culture could be maintained by simply shutting the door to their bedroom.


18 posted on 03/05/2006 5:30:01 AM PST by wayoverontheright
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To: paudio
You're right, Paud. Leftists (note tagline) habitually think in consensus, if they think at all. George Orwell called it groupthink. Leftists naturally fall into two groups: sociopaths and morons. The sociopaths tend to be the leaders, though occasionally, as in the case of Jimmy Carter, a moron surfaces as one of the leaders. If Leftists were capable of intelligent, independent, liberal thinking, they wouldn't be Leftists in the first place
19 posted on 03/05/2006 5:49:17 AM PST by Savage Beast (Do not refer to Leftists as "Liberals;" there's nothing liberal about those people.)
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To: goldstategop
One thing that I have yet to hear pointed out on FR or elsewhere is that homosexuality is rampart in the Muslim world.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years. I learned that men generally had to save for a dowry to get married and frequently didn't get married until their thirties. Since dating is a no no, the only choices available are sex vacations to Thailand or homosexuality.

Further, I understand that culturally homosexuality is not negatively viewed as long as your are not on the receiving end.

Islam may be offended by Hollywood's movies (officially), but many Muslims individually probably are not.
20 posted on 03/05/2006 6:03:58 AM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: wayoverontheright
Yeah, but look at the other side of the coin. Here in Europe, gays are taking the lead in resisting the growing threat of Islamization. And understandably so: though their sexual instincts have gone awry, the self-preservation instinct is clearly intact. Well, good for them.

I applaud this. There is no more effective way to reach through to the liberal establishment. And I'd ten times rather have gays in public culture than Islamofascists at the helm. The former are mostly a nuisance; the latter, an existential enemy.

21 posted on 03/05/2006 6:25:35 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: goldstategop
The problem is Islamists beg to differ and they're homophobic.

This "Islamic homophobia" is just for show. I suggest some you acquire some re-education on their sexual customs.

About two thirds down the page, the author gets into sodomy. Here's a comment by a reader:

Among the Arabs, the Gulf Arabs are the worst of sodomites. They don't only sodomize, they get sodomized also... Not only Arab Muslims are sodomites, but many other Muslims, like in Malaysia and Indonesia are sodomites too. A Moroccan whom I met before told me the story of an Algerian friend of his who was accused falsely (after him) of theft and sent to jail for years because he refused to please the second-Imam in the toilet of a mosque . The Imam followed him to the toilet, touched his genital and asked him to sodomize him. When the guy refused then he accused him of theft and sent him to jail. I have heard of others whose genitals have been touched by other Muslims in mosques during the salat...

One of the reasons I became disgusted about Islam and left the mosque and began to attend Church instead, it was because a Muslim Indonesian man made a homosexual action to me while we were in the mosque. I rebuked him in front of everybody and immediately. Guess what happened the next day? The Imam brought me the police and accused me of breaking to his property, the mosque. He brought me to the police station but when the police didn't find any proves for his accusation, they asked me to sign a paper and promise not to go to his mosque again. Since that day I never went to that mosque. When I started telling the story to other Muslims, they ridiculed and teased me about it. That was the time when God started to open my eyes and to lead me to search for the truth.

Not what you thought, was it?
22 posted on 03/05/2006 6:43:06 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are REALLY stupid.)
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To: son of caesar
I have clearly seen a change of color come over their faces when they speak of this. Some have told me that one reason they absolutely hate the USA is because they think the USA promotes gay culture.

Yes. It's ironic that lefties are convinced that Muslims hate us for "good" reasons (like capitalism). They don't realize how much of the hatred is due directly to the image Hollywood creates of America as teeming with immorality and decadence.

23 posted on 03/05/2006 6:45:48 AM PST by wizardoz
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To: ProudNorseman
And I'd ten times rather have gays in public culture than Islamofascists at the helm. The former are mostly a nuisance; the latter, an existential enemy.

Yes. Gays can be annoying with their constant pot-banging for attention, and the way they cross the street with that queenly, super-slow swish so as to hold up traffic for as long as possible (I live in L.A.) But minor annoyances are nothing compared to murderous thugs who want to enslave the world.

24 posted on 03/05/2006 6:52:32 AM PST by wizardoz
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To: son of caesar

I've been told by guys coming back from Afghanistan, Iraq and Kuwait that sodomy is very common in the ME.


25 posted on 03/05/2006 7:01:52 AM PST by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: goldstategop
The problem with Islam is that it does not work -- literally

Islam prospered during its period of expansion and conquest -- when it had a steady stream of loot and slaves who knew how to run a civilization. When Islams expansion by conquest was halted, Islam went into decline.

It only arose again when a new source of unearned wealth was available to it -- oil. Then fundamentalist Islamic schools (madrassas) could be financed all over the Islamic Third World, yielding the latest crop of Jihadis

The Muslims of Europe are mostly unemployed and survive on welfare or through crime. Islam in Europe will go through its big crisis when those who work decide to stop supporting those who wont

26 posted on 03/05/2006 7:07:20 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the hubris to think they will be the planners)
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To: son of caesar
A few have told me that all gays in the middle east know they have to move to America, where gays are prized citizens.

Why would you listen to anything they have to say. They lie as a matter of principle and will tell you what you want to hear. Ask them about taqiyah. Don't waste your time in discussion.

27 posted on 03/05/2006 7:35:41 AM PST by Stentor
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To: Eagles6
From what I've heard, it's pretty usual for teenage boys to share each other's bed, and oftentimes they have sex. But is it homosexuality? Oh NOOOO, perish the thought. Apparently they aren't gay unless they have romantic feelings for each other.

Or something like that. The reasoning is to warped to make sense of.

28 posted on 03/05/2006 7:38:54 AM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: bill1952
The whole notion of homosexuality as a large feature of any living system makes about as much sense to me as cannibalism - They are both negative genetic traits and produce no offspring.

You do realize, don't you, that darwinists have concocted "scientific" explanations for why homosexuality is actually a beneficial human trait?

That's the beauty of darwinism. It is infinitely malleable in its ability to scientifically explain even the most preposterous and inexplicable things. And it does not confine itself to a consistent set of explanations either. Completely contradictory howlers of explanations are embraced with equal enthusiasm and zeal.

29 posted on 03/05/2006 7:40:15 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: goldstategop

Tides go out. In September, 1940, Fascism was at high tide in the world. Even two years later, that tide had not begun to recede. Within a year it had begun to go out. Two years later, it had gone out. living behind only puddles around the world. Of course, now it was succeeded by another tide of totalitariamism, that of Communism. Events turn things on a dime, and as the song says, " the future's not ours to see. " Progressivism" is a faith and a stupid one, one unable to understand how others can refuse to accept its vision.


30 posted on 03/05/2006 8:01:16 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: ProudNorseman

The saying over there is "men are for pleasure, women are for children".


31 posted on 03/05/2006 8:03:11 AM PST by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia

When I was young, it was understood that Muslim sexual morality was lower than ours. Libertines were chided for behaving" like Turks. " The sexual revolution, of course, changed all that. Now Muslims seem like Puritans.


32 posted on 03/05/2006 8:05:58 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: goldstategop; DirtyHarryY2K; DBeers

I don't know if you want yet another article about BBM, but it's Steyn at the same time.


33 posted on 03/05/2006 9:11:23 AM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia
Islam may be offended by Hollywood's movies (officially), but many Muslims individually probably are not.

My experience in the Muslim world indicates that while many Muslims participate in homosexual sodomy and bestiality, they know they're doing wrong, and they range from conflicted to agonized over it -- they're very touchy on the subject.

Because it's so universal -- one NGO doc told me the typical Afghan male has his first sexual experience, with a male relative, by age 12 -- nobody is going to prosecute it unless they do it in some very offensive public manner that requires the authorities to act.

I assume that these are not like Western happy-happy queer gays. They are more like prisoners who self-identify as straight even while they're doing one another.

Anyway, just one more specific sickness in the panoply of pathogens that is Islam.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

34 posted on 03/05/2006 9:44:03 AM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: son of caesar

Yea that's it, lets expel red blooded american's who are Gay and happen to be related to americans who are not gay to appease goat f*cking camel s*cking Arabs.


35 posted on 03/05/2006 9:46:48 AM PST by The Cuban
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To: goldstategop

Rarely see any rump rider honor killings.


36 posted on 03/05/2006 10:28:17 AM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: pallmallman

Your comments are in the category of "Hammer Meets Nail". Need the graphic.


37 posted on 03/05/2006 12:26:31 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: ProudNorseman

"And I'd ten times rather have gays in public culture than Islamofascists at the helm. The former are mostly a nuisance; the latter, an existential enemy."

If you do a FR search using the keywords "homosexual agenda", and spend some time reading, you'll realize that the goals of the homosexual activists are way beyond the mere nuisance category. If the Islamic Jihadis are destroyed, we'll still be destroyed by the radical homosexuals and their assistants. It's the enemy within and the enemy without. Of course, the "gay" agenda is fostered and supported by the leftist MSM and feminists and the "sex positive" crowd who want to turn kids into their victims. Are you aware of the small but vocal group of professional intelligentsia who insist that child/adult sex isn't necessarily harmful, but even beneficial?


38 posted on 03/05/2006 12:32:46 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: little jeremiah

Come on.


39 posted on 03/05/2006 12:34:19 PM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: wizardoz

Please note my comment above. The "gay" agenda is not a mere nuisance. Read up and realize what they really want - hatespeech, hatethought, and the control of our children.


40 posted on 03/05/2006 12:34:38 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: ProudNorseman

That's not a very persuasive argument. Have you done the search, read the articles?

I've been studying up on gay rights activism, beliefs, goals and so on since the mid to late 80s. Have you?


41 posted on 03/05/2006 12:37:33 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: little jeremiah
I'm sorry, but your arguments are about equally persuasive (to me). And no, I don't have time to read the articles, trying as I am to do some work in between the posting. But let's just say I have been exposed to the point of view before.

Also, I live in Scandinavia and have ample exposure both to homosexual and Islamofascist activists. I said above that the latter are ten times as threatening to my values and lifestyle as the former. On second thought, make that a hundred times instead.

Good luck in persuading me, or most people, otherwise.

42 posted on 03/05/2006 12:44:13 PM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: ProudNorseman

Well, in the US every state in which people have voted about it, "gay" marriage has gone down in flaming defeat, even liberal states such as Oregon and California. The percentage of people who consider homosexuality wrong is actually increasing in the last few years.

If you don't see anything dangerous with the goals of the "gay" agenda, then you must thing these things are A-okay:

1. People being fined, jailed, or fired (or all three) for saying anything negative about homosexuality, even wanting to point out to teenagers the dangers of "gay" sex.

2. "Gay" marriage being forced on an entire state by two judges.

3. Homosexuals as Boy Scout leaders, or Boy Scouts being prevented from using any public facilities because they don't allow homosexuals as scout leaders.

4. Kids as young as 5 years old being taught that "gay" is good.

5. Kids as young as 14 years old being taught by homosexual activists how to engage in fisting and other forms of "gay" sex acts.

6. Couples who offer to adopt or foster orphans or otherwise parentless children being forced to attend several weeks of pro-homosexual "sensitivity" training in order to adopt or foster children.

7. Homosexuals being allowed to foster or adopt children, even thought the rates of child molestation among homosexuals is indisputably much higher than among heterosexuals.

8. Laws which force businesses to hire cross dressers and transsexuals.

9. Adolescents and others being told that if they have one "gay" feeling or experience they are "gay" and they are born that way and can never change.

10. Organizations who help homosexuals get healed from their attraction to the same sex are not only ridiculed, stifled, and protested, but now they are being sued into silence.

I could list many, many more reasons why the "gay" agenda is very dangerous.


43 posted on 03/05/2006 12:59:43 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: goldstategop; All

Any links to a place to read the rest of the article without registering?


44 posted on 03/05/2006 1:22:04 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: ProudNorseman
I agree, the Islamists are the threat. Most Gays just want to live their own lives without interference. There are a vocal minority that cause all the trouble.
45 posted on 03/05/2006 1:31:43 PM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia

Yes, exactly. Besides, they are condemned to remain at some five percent of the population, tops. The Islamists can be as many as one allows.


46 posted on 03/05/2006 1:39:30 PM PST by ProudNorseman
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To: Stentor

Before you get your knickers into a twist, I merely posted what I have heard them say. I know they lie as a matter or principle, but I highly doubt middle aged men with families would like about their disdain for gay culture, do you? As far as wasting my time in discussions with them, it is very important to know where your possible enemy is coming from, dont you agree?


47 posted on 03/06/2006 3:17:53 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: Eagles6

I know, that is the ironic thing about it. The ones who Ive spoken to say it is the Iranians invented gay stuff. They take great pains to say in their nations, it is not tolerated at all.


48 posted on 03/06/2006 3:19:25 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: The Cuban

You posted on this thread, yet you must not have read any of the other posters words. I dont see where anyone has called for expelling gays from this nation, do you? If you do, you really need one of those five dollar eye exams, good luck.


49 posted on 03/06/2006 3:21:44 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: goldstategop

BAREBACK MOUNTAIN a loser for Hollywood.

"Liberals comfort themselves into thinking gay love, as fetishized in this year's Oscar-nominated movie, "Brokeback Mountain" is an irreversible cultural fact."

The Oscars revealed what everyone already knew about Hollywood: they are in it for the money. They are just as "homophobic" as the rest of America,
When it was announced Jack Nicholson would give Best Picture, you knew it would not be BareBack Mountain.


50 posted on 03/06/2006 3:22:17 AM PST by Cincinna (The ARKANSAS GRIFTERS want to take over your country. HILLARY & HER HINO ON THE MOVE!)
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