Darwin smacked in new U.S. poll (69% of Americans Want alternate theories allowed in class)

WorldnetDaily.Com ^ | 03/07/2006

[js1138]

I don't know how that works -- should someone ping an admin mod when a thread title is a direct lie, saying the opposite of what the article does, like this one?

At least one mod has cautioned us against using the "L" word in reference to blatant mendacity. I'm sure you can express yourself well enough without it.

I wouldn't count on help from authority on this topic.

[Right Wing Professor]

So, I thought we'd agreed you weren't going to bother me. You really don't want me to put you in the ignore file, do you?

[zeeba neighba]

you do agree that if you and all your siblings and first cousins have blue eyes, you can deduce your grandfather had blue eyes. Therefore, it is not necessary to have a picture of your grandfather to figure out his eye color. If you and your siblings and cousins are all white, I think it's fair to say he was white, too.

Not if he's adopted.

[Ready2go]

"So what exactly is the empirical evidence against evolution? And 'dunno how it happened so Goddidit' is not evidence."

I'd say how about listening to some folks that have had a NDE (Near Death Experience) they can give you a idea of what happens to us when we die...millions have gotten a glimpse into eternity!

Here is a neat testimony from a Godless atheist...

Saved From Hell
Rev. Howard Storm's near-death experience

Before his near-death experience, Rev. Howard Storm, a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it.

He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched, or felt, he had no faith in.

He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else.

On June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented.

His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience that he resigned as a professor and devoted his time to attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister.

The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience, which is an excerpt from his book, My Descent Into Death, reprinted by permission.

For those of you who wish to read about his adventure:
http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

No one has "proof" of how we got here... guesses... ideas...thoughts...yes, but no solid proof.

But where we're going to spend eternity is a choice each one of us has to make on our own, and I'd like to suggest that each of you ponder your future after you leave here (die).

Do you picture "nothing" after death? Life is over.

What if you're wrong?

[Dimensio]

Ok. I revise it to say: Evolutionists say that because we have super duper expialidocious common characteristics with the DNA of chimps, we have the same common ancestor.

This is not an accurate statement. A more accurate statement would be that in addition to extensive fossil evidence, markers in analagously identical positions of non-coding regions of the DNA of both humans and chimpanzees show identical viral insertions, providing strong evidence for descent from common ancestry of the two species. This is more than just common characteristics in the DNA, this is common characteristics in DNA segments where a difference would have no effect on physical characteristics of the organism.

[Dimensio]

Near as I can tell from observation, evolution is not about science at all; it's about lifestyles and the protection of lifestyles.

Perhaps you could support this claim with evidence? I do not understand how evolution relates to a "lifestyle" at all.

[Right Wing Professor]

I'm sure you can express yourself well enough without it.

Or know how to access Mr. Roget.

Here's a useful list for evos posting on these threads.

aspersion, backbiting, calumniation, calumny, complete distortion of the facts, corker, deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, distortion, evasion, fable, fabrication, falsehood, falseness, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, fish story, forgery, fraudulence, guile, hyperbole, inaccuracy, invention, libel, mendacity, misrepresentation, misstatement, myth, obloquy, perjury, prevarication, revilement, reviling, slander, subterfuge, tale, tall story, terminological inexactitude, vilification, white lie, whopper

Or if you need the verb:

be untruthful, beguile, break promise, bull, con, concoct, deceive, delude, dissemble, dissimulate, distort, dupe, equivocate, exaggerate, fabricate, fake, falsify, fib, forswear, frame, fudge, invent, jazz, jive, make believe, malign, misguide, misinform, misinstruct, mislead, misrepresent, misspeak, misstate, overdraw, palter, perjure, pervert, phony up, plant, prevaricate, promote, put on, queer, snow, soft-soap, string along, victimize

Maybe we can have DarwinCentral announce the 'synonym of the day' every morning?

[Dimensio]

'd say how about listening to some folks that have had a NDE (Near Death Experience) they can give you a idea of what happens to us when we die...millions have gotten a glimpse into eternity!

I fail to understand the relevance of your posting. Even if what you have offered is real evidence of existence of consciousness beyond death, it has no bearing on the validity of the theory of evolution, and as such can not qualify as evidence against the theory.

[js1138]

You never know who you're talking to on the internet.

I happen to know that although your screen name suggests a voluptuous female, you are actually a 57 year old balding, hairy-chested man.

[jec41]

Obviously the problem is not with science nor math, but with the very unscientific philosophy of evolution. Many things have been called scientific fact over the years, and even claimed to refute God's word, but more than 99% of those ideas ended up on the trash heap of science, which is where evolution belongs.

There are three methods of acquiring knowledge known to man. Philosophy is argument for proof of the unknown(faith and belief). Science is observation of facts, and the evidence and explanation of the fact. Mathematics determines absolutes. Changes occur (evolution is a fact) is of science. Theology (faith and belief) is of philosophy. Philosophy has provided little or no new knowledge in a thousand years. All new knowledge since the middle ages has been of math and science. Opinion is void of both knowledge and fact. It is despised by philosophy, science and mathematics.

[zeeba neighba]

Yes, put me there, it'll be a blessed relief, and I can stop laughing at the pompous elitism in your posts.

[Right Wing Professor]

Yes, put me there, it'll be a blessed relief, and I can stop laughing at the pompous elitism in your posts.

Oh, OK. Done. Watch out for the 57 year old balding frog. He's desperate for attention.

[js1138]

I've had something that sounds like the NDE while in surgery. It was 50 years ago, and the term NDE wasn't in commmon use.

It was, however, quite memorable, and I still have some visual imagery from it.

I never considered it anything but a hallucination.

[Coyoteman]

Your post make me think of this:

What are the facts? Again and again and again - what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what 'the stars foretell,' avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable 'verdict of history' - what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your only clue. Get the facts!

Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

[microgood]

So what word is the common ancestor?

I think you would answer ENCYC. What I would say is all 26 letters of the alphabet came into existence at the same time and that life shares common characteristics and are not necessarily related by common descent, but by similarity; i.e. all life is similar. I think a more relevant representation would be:

ENCYCLOPEDLA
ENCYCLNPEDIA
ENCYCLOPEJIA
ENCYCNOPEDIA
ENCYCLIPEDIA
????????????
????????????
????????????
the question marks represent the common ancestor(s) we have with the chimp. And unless you assume we evolved from other creatures that are still alive, like rats or whatever, the chain is broken at that point. Otherwise you are assuming what you are trying to prove.

You see similarity and see common ancestry. I see similarity and see similarity.

I take it from your non-answer to my question you do agree that if you and all your siblings and first cousins have blue eyes, you can deduce your grandfather had blue eyes. Therefore, it is not necessary to have a picture of your grandfather to figure out his eye color.

I agree you could do that. But I do not see its relevance to speciation. Nor do I see how this gets you to a creature which you have no genetic information for? One without eyes or ears or limbs or organs at all for which we have no genetic information since it became extinct 1 billion years ago?

I know you think it is just a matter of one baby step at a time back to the beginning, switching back and forth from the genome to morphology and back to the genome as needed.

I'm trying to lead you, slowly, though that logic. But I can't lead you where you refuse to go.

I am probably a lost cause, but thanks for the effort.

[zeeba neighba]

Watch out for the 57 year old balding frog. He's desperate for attention.

Well your friend is working on getting a date to make candy.

[RunningWolf]

Hey zeeba I was on the 'ignore file', they even posted it to make sure I would know LOLOL. The 'ignore file' even made it to a profile page, and then to a blog.

And that was from one THE MOST educated and rational of the evo posters LOLOL.

Zeeba, its big time when you get 'on the file' LOL.

Wolf

[Dimensio]

I love the huffing and puffing from the aethiests on anything questioning Darwin's "Theory".

What of the theists and atheists who do not "huff and puff" over such matters, but instead respond to common creationist falsehoods with rational explanations?

[zeeba neighba]

Well that is good news, better than a GED even.