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The End of Communist China?
FrontPageMagazine ^ | 3/9/2006 | y Jamie Glazov interview of Gordon G. Chang, the author of The Coming Collapse of China.

Posted on 03/09/2006 6:05:56 AM PST by Dark Skies

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To: Fishing-guy
The book was written in 2001...and as he is an attorney in Shanghai (albeit a U.S. citizen, his father was an expatriate Chinese), I am not surprised that the reds locked all barrels on him.

Have they deported him yet? Has he had any visitations from the friendly neighborhood security services?

21 posted on 03/09/2006 11:32:52 AM PST by Paul Ross (Hitting bullets with bullets successfully for 35 years!)
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To: RoadTest; Eric in the Ozarks; All
RE: Russians are suspicious of "profit."

By 1921 thanks to W.W.I, civil war, and other turmoil Russia was in shambles.

This is from a book review of Russia's Last Capitalists: The Nepmen, 1921-1929 by Alan M. Ball (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1990).

The reviewer is Richard M. Ebeling, August 1991.

"Russia was not ready for a full and immediate leap into either socialism or communism. What Russia needed, at least for a time, was a return to bourgeois capitalism. . .

"In the spring of 1921, Lenin announced the institution of a 'New Economic Policy.' . . . Agricultural land was returned to the ownership and control of the peasants . . . Retail businesses, small companies and medium-sized industries were permitted to be established. Only foreign trade and what the Bolsheviks called the 'commanding heights' of the economy — heavy and large industry — remained in state-owned and state-managed hands. [Sound familiar?]

"The economy boomed. Food supplies, while not particularly cheap, were available in plentiful supply in all the cities. Shops were filled with consumer goods, and service industries abounded. Freed from the dead hand of total and rigid central planning, the entrepreneurial spirit blossomed among the Russian people. The Russians showed themselves to be as industrious and productive as any of the peoples of the West, once they had the opportunity to earn profits on the market, and once they could own private property and feel a degree of security in its possession. . . .

"The party apparatus resented the reestablishment of a 'capitalist class.' . . .

"Russia's limited capitalism was hampered and straight-jacketed at every turn. But what the Nepmen demonstrated is that Russia could be wealthy and prosperous . . .

"[it all ended in 1929] With Stalin's rise to power in the Communist Party, total central planning was reinstituted. Private property was again nationalized. Then, in one of the worst crimes and tragedies of the 20th century, Stalin ordered the collectivization of all farming into state farms; and his plan was effected through planned famines, mass murders and deportations to slave labor camps in Siberia."

[End of excerpts. My emphasis and comment]

Red China is much more likely to follow this pattern. The difference is the Chi-com party cadre are many of the "Nepmen." The Chi-coms have killed off more citizens than Stalin. Their "great leaps" upon the backs of citizens killed tens of millions. A few tens of millions more won't matter.

This has been the Chi-com version of NEP. Deng and the Chi-coms studied NEP even before Mao died, I believe -- Deng even grilled Armand Hammer about his experiences in Russia at the time.

22 posted on 03/09/2006 2:04:37 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

You're probably right. I know the Chinese government are control freaks. They can't stand anything getting out of their hands.

So China may go to central control of the strong sort and choke off incentive, at which time Chinese products will be junk again, like Russian manufactured goods.


23 posted on 03/09/2006 2:13:22 PM PST by RoadTest ("- - a popular government cannot flourish without virtue in the people." - Richard Henry Lee, 1786)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

What time period was he in China?


24 posted on 03/09/2006 2:27:13 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: satchmodog9

Agreed. Appeasement is a horribly dangerous game.

And those who think themselves wisest at the game usually lose the most . . . including their heads . . . in more ways than one.


25 posted on 03/09/2006 2:28:59 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: Kuehn12

I have never observed that

doom and gloom necessarily avoids alighting and resting where it's not 'needed.'

Sometimes it seems to be attracted most quickly to where the potential/probability for it is ignored unfittingly and unwisely.


26 posted on 03/09/2006 2:30:43 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: Paul Ross

I read somewhere that they invited him back to mainland to check things out, but this was couple years ago.


27 posted on 03/09/2006 4:52:54 PM PST by Fishing-guy
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To: satchmodog9

During much of the 1930s, many considered Hitler to be just this sort of eccentric and iconoclastic strong man. Today, the same sorts of folks play down the rise of the PRC and SCO.


28 posted on 03/09/2006 5:12:02 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Quix
My dad was born in 1906. he accompanied his father to China to install some of the first Otis elevators in Shanghai in the 1920s. He learned to fly back in Ohio and Michigan and returned as a commercial pilot for china National Airline Company, owned by American Airlines (later by PAA.)
He was a little too old to step forward in WW II so he joined the US AAF as a civilian pilot in the China-Burma-India Campaign and flew C-46s over the Hump. I came along via a second marriage in 1948 and he took the family to Japan in 1950 where I grew up as an Army brat. He worked in Tokyo for the the US Army's Japan Procurement Agency as a buyer of raw materials in the 1950s. He was truly an "Old China Hand."
29 posted on 03/09/2006 5:12:33 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: satchmodog9

Right out of the Neville Chamberlain playbook. We learned precisely nothing from WW2.


30 posted on 03/09/2006 5:13:47 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: RoadTest

From my own experience, I don't think it was play out this way. Russians never owned anything and were serfs for hundreds of years. In China, a merchant class developed, probably because of China's location. They are the Jews of Asia.


31 posted on 03/09/2006 5:15:47 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: tallhappy

Most of the up and coming "capitalist" younger princelings unanamously support the Beijing Party Line and relish becoming CCP bigwigs. Aparatchiks wearing Gucci ....


32 posted on 03/09/2006 5:15:52 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Impressive.

Did he learn Chinese?

I met some of the old China hands when I lived there. They were a special breed. Great folks. And well respected by the common Chinese people as well as by the scholars.


33 posted on 03/09/2006 5:42:06 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: Quix
I think he had a working knowledge of Mandarin and he spoke Japanese pretty well.
You might find this interesting;
He joined a Masonic Lodge in Shanghai in the 1930s but lost track of the group of men during the war. When he took the DAC job and arrived in Japan, he found several of his old lodge brothers and the lodge itself in Tokyo. They had left China in 1949 following the Communist takeover that banned all things western. This is proably why we stayed in Japan until 1961--a lot of these guys just didn't want to go home.
34 posted on 03/09/2006 6:05:17 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: monkeywrench; indcons; Gengis Khan

Very interesting article.


35 posted on 03/09/2006 6:06:44 PM PST by Paul_Denton (The U.N. Building. What a joke! They turned it into low rent housing. It's a dump.)
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To: Dark Skies
The risk for us is that the Chinese will bring down the current American-led international system long before China would otherwise become a responsible power.

If it ends outsourcing...if it gives me an opportunity to sneer at free traitors everywhere and say, with my last breath of life, "I told you so." then it will be worth it.

I have no children - but many of the free traitors do. And those children will pay the price.

Just getting a little start on the "I told you so."

36 posted on 03/09/2006 6:12:59 PM PST by neutrino (Globalization is the economic treason that dare not speak its name.(173))
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To: Dark Skies

BTTT!


37 posted on 03/09/2006 6:13:28 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Interesting.

I can certainly understand enjoying staying in Asia. Love the people.


38 posted on 03/09/2006 7:01:14 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: Quix
I think we should keep our eyes open when dealing with China. Their growing economy will need energy and we shouldn't consider this much more than short term threat.
We need to get busy and find energy alternatives to petroleum. China does too.
39 posted on 03/09/2006 7:07:50 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Reasonable considerations.

Though I believe that the puppet masters already have at least 3-4 DIFFERENT more or less free energy technologies held in reserve because they would destroy the controllers' centralized means of control through power and gasoline distribution.


40 posted on 03/09/2006 7:13:03 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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