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Behind the baby gap lies a culture of contempt for parenthood (From the "Guardian", on top of it)
Guardian Unlimited ^ | 3/7/2006 | Madeline Bunting

Posted on 03/09/2006 12:51:28 PM PST by Rutles4Ever

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To: Rutles4Ever
I encourage people to not have children. I mean really, have you looked at the people around you? Most people aren't qualified to take care of themselves, much less someone else.

Fewer people means more jobs, more space, higher-quality living for less money, and a better environment for me. That, and I like watching government entities squirm when they think about how the declining birthrate is going to affect the Social Security program that they have been looting for years.

21 posted on 03/09/2006 2:06:36 PM PST by Alien Gunfighter (Isolationism now! This ain't the 40s!)
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To: gobucks; qam1; ItsOurTimeNow; PresbyRev; tortoise; Fraulein; StoneColdGOP; Clemenza; malakhi; ...
Xer Ping

Ping list for the discussion of the politics and social (and sometimes nostalgic) aspects that directly effects Generation Reagan / Generation-X (Those born from 1965-1981) including all the spending previous generations (i.e. The Baby Boomers) are doing that Gen-X and Y will end up paying for.

Freep mail me to be added or dropped. See my home page for details and previous articles.

22 posted on 03/09/2006 2:11:20 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: ex-snook

IIRC, Jimmuh Carter has three or four sons. Amy was a surprise baby who came well after the last Carter son. (I take no joy from these facts.)


23 posted on 03/09/2006 2:26:15 PM PST by Slings and Arrows ("Facts are a Zionist plot!" --MarkL)
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To: Alien Gunfighter

Couldn't agree with you more, Pal. Of course, you're going to get a lot of outraged screeching from the rabbit people on this. But don't get me wrong, I love kids. Really! Unfortunately all the chefs with the skills to prepare them properly are in New Guinea and refuse to leave the island...


24 posted on 03/09/2006 2:30:30 PM PST by infidel dog (nearer my God to thee....)
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To: bordergal

Not to mention scotch.


25 posted on 03/09/2006 2:35:26 PM PST by linda_22003
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To: Owl_Eagle

And your neighbors are aware that you have nothing but contempt for them? Must be pleasant living there.


26 posted on 03/09/2006 2:36:45 PM PST by linda_22003
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To: Alien Gunfighter
Fewer people means more jobs, more space, higher-quality living for less money, and a better environment for me.

Perhaps, but it also means less technological and cultural innovation. A lot of great innovators have come from surprising backgrounds.

27 posted on 03/09/2006 2:38:44 PM PST by timm22
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To: Rutles4Ever
How is it that in cultures all over the world pregnancies prompt congratulations rather than anxious questions about childcare?

I'll admit to sometimes having the nervous, questioning response when hearing about someone's pregnancy, but only when I find that the pregant woman is unfit and totally unprepared for parenthood. When that's not the case, I am very happy for the person and almost always offer congratulations. I was quite happy when I found out my sister was pregant with her first child, as I knew it was something she had always wanted and that she'd make a great mom.

Personally, I have no interest in having children of my own. I just wish both sides could learn to tolerate and respect the other's decisions. Some people find joy and fulfillment in parenting, and some expect that they will not. Instead of judging someone for being a "breeder" or a "selfish materialist," why not just recognize that we all have different preferences and abilities, and not get so worked up about it?

28 posted on 03/09/2006 2:57:34 PM PST by timm22
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To: Owl_Eagle

Good point. Natural selection at its finest....and they very same people who hold Darwin as the source of all truth don't realize how it's applying to them!


29 posted on 03/09/2006 3:30:36 PM PST by bordergal (1)
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To: timm22

That's only if other parts of the world with a high population density respect your ownership of of all that open, "wasted" space and those lovely, unused natural resources.

Low density populations are at constant risk of encroachment by their neighbors.

Example, Tibet.


30 posted on 03/09/2006 3:37:58 PM PST by bordergal (1)
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To: ex-snook; Slings and Arrows
IIRC, Jimmuh Carter has three or four sons. Amy was a surprise baby who came well after the last Carter son. (I take no joy from these facts.)

Slings is right. Jimmuh and Rosemary Carter had 3 sons, Jack, Chip, and Jeff, between 1947 to 1952. You'd think with those 3 grim examples they would have stopped, but they didn't and daughter Amy was born in 1967. And Ike and Mamie Eisenhower had two sons, but the first son died in childhood before the second one, John, was born.

31 posted on 03/09/2006 4:03:58 PM PST by xJones (Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: Alien Gunfighter; timm22
I encourage people to not have children. I mean really, have you looked at the people around you? Most people aren't qualified to take care of themselves, much less someone else.

Personally, I have no interest in having children of my own. I just wish both sides could learn to tolerate and respect the other's decisions.

I can respect the rational decision that having kids isn't for everyone. We all know the problems with children being born every day to irresponsible parents, at least one of which has minimal interest at best in the infant. What we are seeing is a large number of educated white people who, for whatever reasons, aren't having children.

It's not very cheerful thinking about a future with a majority population that wasn't raised to the same standards and beliefs that dear old mom and dad sacrificed to teach you. If you're lucky, you'll have a nephew or niece that will care enough about you to call now and then when old age creeps up. It's the weirdest thing, but boomers, etc. never think we'll get old. That's for all our elder relatives, although they keep dying off these days...

But for all your experiences and travels, you will never know the joy of watching your kid trying to get up and walk the first time, the joy of their crazy birthday parties, or the joy of little arms around your neck, kissing mama or daddy goodnight. I've enjoyed quite a lot of experiences in my life so far, but nothing beats the knowledge that the memory of the civilization I was born in, and what I've learned will live on in my kids.

32 posted on 03/09/2006 4:42:09 PM PST by xJones (Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: Rutles4Ever

Parenthood is hated by the nihilists. But some on the Right are non parents as well but for entirely different reasons. If one is honest about what a child is likely to face in terms of mind numbing dumbing down, unless one is absolutely certain they can provide not only flawless home schooling, but also, a home environment free of pornography, computer games and other mind destroyers, then it may well be best not to bring a child into the world. It is a quandry - we, as conservatives, ought to replace ourselves and then some, but the child we create may not actually replace us at all.


33 posted on 03/09/2006 4:42:37 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Jaysun
Americans face a similar problem. It's mostly the Left that's killing their own young - they're aborting themselves out of existence.

Liberalism isn't hereditary.

34 posted on 03/09/2006 4:45:00 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: xJones
They seem happy with their choices, although it seems such a sterile existence to me.

In my family, what you described is my brother and SIL. They jet set around the world to golf and it all seems so meaningless - I just can't get excited about their narcissism just as they are not excited about their only nephew . . . .

I was only blessed with one child but he has been my greatest joy and greatest disappointment - just like every other kid in the world.

35 posted on 03/09/2006 4:51:37 PM PST by WIladyconservative
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To: Aliska
There is a religion that allows multiple wives and children, and demographics are not in favor of western culture.

The only problem with that position is that things aren't static. The same things that drove western culture and western women in particular to career, money, sexual liberation will work their magic with the women of the religion you mention.

When women in that part of the world realize that they can date who they want, marry who they want, and hold them to standards, things will change. For many western women, liberation means being sexually liberated - they don't have to marry, date, love or even like the man who may share their bed for the night.

Once things loosen a bit, they will loosen even more. So while hubby goes off to work, sooner or later one of the young wives will succumb to temptation and enjoy a delightful sexual romp with the hunky UPS guy. She will confide her tender memory to her friends, who will never look at a hunky UPS guy the same way again. They too will indulge.

A husband at home and a boyfriend at work. Nobody is going to get stoned to death for it. And the things you mention: careers outside the home, abortion, birth control, as well as divorce, etc will become as common as they are in our culture.

One of the things the Islamist is fighting against is the west exporting its culture into their culture. Ultimately, it's a losing bet - it is an irresistible force. I think they know the odds are very against them, which only fuels their desperation and tactics.

These guys are willing to kill themselves to keep their housewives from becoming desperate & anxiously awaiting the next package from UPS, and their daughters from wearing tight, lowrider jeans & slutting around with the cute guy of the week down at her local school. They are willing to die for it and to kill us over it.

It's not static - they can't really stop people from realizing that they ultimately can do what they want, with whoever they want, and there is nothing that an angry hubby can really do about it without suffering an undue price himself.

36 posted on 03/09/2006 4:58:36 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Didn't the Guardian recently publish an article about a British career grrrl who laments her decision to not procreate?

However rational the decision to not propagate your line, the world ultimately trends to being run by whatever group makes the most babies. Even if it means the world is run into the ground.

37 posted on 03/09/2006 5:00:25 PM PST by TEEHEE
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To: bordergal
Maybe that is why god gave us COFFEE.

And beer.

38 posted on 03/09/2006 5:04:31 PM PST by grellis (can't sleep clown will eat me)
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To: bordergal
"and they very same people who hold Darwin as the source of all truth don't realize how it's applying to them!"

Good one! I think, maybe Barbara Bush?, at a graduation said 'No one on their deathbed will say they regret not closing another deal.'

It's what you love that you leave after you.

39 posted on 03/09/2006 5:05:13 PM PST by ex-snook (God of the Universe, God of Creation, God of Love, thank you for life.)
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To: HitmanLV
Well, all you say may be what comes down the line, but slutting around with the UPS guy is not a good way to go. But that's just my old fashioned weird value system kicking in again. I would like to see us climb back to a higher moral standard, but don't suppose I'll live to see it. I've lived through some of that, and it is not a happy way to go. No sense with obsessing with the idyllic past that really didn't exist to the extent I thought it did. Still, people seemed generally more content and shouldered their burdens more maturely than a lot of what I see now.

Girls were catty, but they did not kick, beat up and pull their friends' and enemies' hair when they got mad at them. I see that as an overall good thing. My son's ex-wife has a thing for keying cars. And he has his faults, too, but doesn't confide those to me, naturally. No telling how many she has caused insurance claims for.

One would hope, like I hoped with Russia, that they would adopt the good in our system and jettison the bad. One can still hope.

40 posted on 03/09/2006 5:11:55 PM PST by Aliska
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