Posted on 03/10/2006 7:30:45 AM PST by eraser2005
Well, that would appear to make a hybrid a more attractive choice as a used car than as a new one.
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Only if you are not facing the big cost of replacing a battery arrangement. :-)
Why must this tired argument keep cropping up?
"I did not buy a hybrid for the "savings", or the price.
I bout it because I was challenged when I drove it. I was fascinated by the technology, the instrumentation, the challenge. The new experience.
"I just felt like it" is no longer a choice?"
Agreed. They also have a considerable "cool factor" in some circles and, basically, they are fun and challenging to drive, making getting some place a little more entertaining as you try to balance speed and efficiency.
Another unpublished, but very important benefit for some:
FEWER TICKETS. You are far less motivated to speed when you see the impact on mileage in real time. I am a safer driver today, and I just buzz right past speed traps without having to pray anymore that I won't get tagged. They should add lower insurance rates as a benefit for many.
Aren't tires for motorcycles expensive {$200 - $400 for 2} and they don't last that many miles - 10K or so {this is for the faster bikes, maybe regular bikes last longer}? I would think that would eat into any fuel savings.
I get 36 mpg overall in my 04 Toyota Corolla. I am afraid, I would get killed if I bought another motorcycle since I would go too fast on it and a lot of drivers have difficulty seeing you.
1992 Honda Accord with about 315,000 miles on it. Original engine.
Those expensive batteries may last those many miles but not that many years.
"Saving money is not the reason to buy a hybrid. Same with an H2 or a Corvette.
Thank you.
One sane person in a sea of controlling twits!"
Careful there - calling someone who disagrees with you a 'twit' isn't the least controlling of behavior, either.
As for the experience side of say, the Toyota Highlander, one must decide on the techie aspect or the SUV/4WD aspect. The hybrids can't really perform with a reasonable sized boat behind it.
Even my Range Rover has trouble dragging a large boat at 60 mph when the head winds are over 20 knots. It keeps wanting to downshift out of 4th gear.
If, after 150-180K miles, battery replacement costs more than the value of the car, the car will be worth nothing.
The economics of batteries on hybrids will behave like that of trannies. Cars with poor transmissions have low resale value. Cars with low resale value have lower new retail prices.
What he did to survive the Great Depression is amazing. What he did for the country during WWII is herioc.
Great man
You've had a few comments on this, but I just had to add to it.
While, as someone else wrote, "saving money" is core to hybrid marketing, you are so right that price is unrelated to value. Price comes of perception -- what the market will immediately bear. Value is another thing, and that's the problem.
They're getting there with the Lexus GS450h (available very soon) and the upcoming Lexus LS600h (available late this Fall).
I never understood why more small diesels weren't put in domestic cars .A Ford Fairmont with a diesel giving 50 mpg could have been a great seller.And not a poorly "redesigned" gas engine like GM used to destroy diesel cars of the late 70s.The diesel Olds I test drove (used) was fine but the bank wouldn't loan on any of those GM diesels in the 80s.Oddly the diesel car showed none of the usual rusting similar gas cars had.This one wasn't babied,I don't think he had a garage. Anyone else care to comment on corrosion differences,if any?
ROTFLMAO! Best line of the day!
Good for you! At least you aren't doing it to "make a political statement" or "be cool."
There's a whole contingent of people where I work who drive a Prius to be PC. They are really annoying, self-important jerks.
I figure to get about 8mpg when I have some fun per gallon with it.
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Amen to that! I have my 340 hp Chrysler 300 with a v8 and AWD. I get like 13 mpg when I am lucky.
But I have a pretty heavy foot nowadays, so that doesn't happen too often... The hippies must get a heart attack when they see me coming around.
"I personally wouldn't buy a hybrid now, I'd wait 10 years when the technology is refined, and the car will be an actual gas electic hybrid, where you can recharge the battery from an outside energy source. Electic hybrids are a great idea, especially for cars that are stop and go, but its only the first generation of these things."
One thing that has always bothered me about electric cars, is that overall, aren't they less efficient than gas-powered ones, when you consider the entire system? Every time you convert from 1 kind of energy to another you lose a lot (I remember the best was a 30% conversion rate but this was when I was in high school); furthermore energy is lost in transmission. An electric car would have to get energy that is transmitted over lossy power lines, before being converted from gas/coal/steam. A gas powered car gets all the power immediately in a 1 step conversion. It seems a lot more wasteful to use an electric car than a gas one, please correct me if I am wrong. (I majored in CS not EE ;D)
"Plus me studying electrical engineering, I wouldn't trust myself with a hybrid. I know I'd attempt to modify it to take a charge from an outside source, ruining my warranty, and possibly the whole car!"
Hey now you're my kind of engineer! :)
Always has been.
Once you know that, alot of things make sense.
It's a cart & horse thing.
Fleet MPG (average of all vehicles) is "managed" pursuant to crude flow and product breakout capacity, not the other way around.
It may be hard to get hold of this idea, but if you had the responsibility of holding the whole ballgame together, you'd probably do the same.
I'm not saying it's the best way, but that's what's been happening.
The metallurgy is better on the diesels among other factors (oil vapors, ionic charge, etc.) concerning rust. I've noticed it too.
Three issues--1) noisy, clattering engines, 2) higher NOx output and 3) harmful diesel particulate output.
However, with the arrival of low-sulfur diesel fuel this summer and wider availability of clean-burning biodiesel in the near future, we now have the technology to reduce both NOx output to that of gasoline engines and eliminate the diesel particulates by "burning" them in specially-made catalytic converters. Also, today's diesel engines have very modern designs that have eliminated the pretty much the clattering sound; if you've driven the Mercedes-Benz E320CDI which is available in 45 states you'll note the lack of clatter sound and no smoke from the exhaust, either!
Mercedes-Benz has also demonstrated diesel engines that easily meet the EPA Tier 3 emission standards by injecting urea gas into the exhaust stream, which drastically reduces NOx output. Already, I've heard M-B is testing 3.5-liter V-6 and 4.5-liter V-8 turbodiesel engines that will meet the latest EPA/CARB standards for diesel exhaust that could become available as early as Fall 2007; we could see them on all M-B models--including the R-series tall wagon, M-series small SUV and G-series large SUV.
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