[eraser2005]

Interesting. Consumer Reports has to backtrack on their previous claims of low mileage and no payback. They now say that Prius and Civic Hybrid owners WILL save money over 5 years and 75,000 miles compared to the gasoline only counterparts (though the savings are just $406 and $317 respectively). That's a $4000+ reversal for the Civic. Some is depreciation corrections, and some is fuel economy corrections (they now say they got 44 mpg in a Prius). The Escape hybrid is more expensive over 5 years than its gasoline counterpart, though not by much. The Escape hybrid saves $660 per year in gasoline costs, though, so a few extra years of ownership should close the gap (maintenance costs are lower as well - though you do have the potential for battery replacement, though all evidence says these are now lasting over 180k miles with very minor degradation).

Of course, it would be nice if CR could recall their magazine like they push manufacturers to do in order to correct their mistakes.

[tigtog]

There is no savings from a hybrid. The purchase price is known but the O&M costs are currently unknown to the market. The only benefit is that you get to use the HOV lanes as a single driver. That will change as soon as more hybrids are bought. If you want to really save money on fuel ride a motorcycle. You actually save money and will always get to use the HOV lanes.

[discostu]

Still doesn't look very impressive to me (deeper in the article):
The new calculations show that owners of the Toyota (TM) Prius will save $406 and owners of the Honda (HMC) Civic hybrid will save $317 compared with owners of their gas-only counterparts. However, owners of four other hybrids -- the Honda Accord, Ford (F) Escape, Toyota Highlander, and Lexus RX 400h -- will still end up spending $1,883 to $5,508 more over five years and 75,000 miles, Consumer Reports said.

So two of the models save money, and over the course of a 5 year ownerships these cars that cost 5 digits will save you a few hundred bucks. That's just slightly better than break even, and once you throw in time value of money you're moving to zero or a really small (less than $100) loss.

[DoughtyOne]

The Mariner hybrid's batteries are guaranteed for ten years or 150,000 miles. That pretty much removes that concern. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ford Escape's batteries are covered under the same type of warranty.

[Righter-than-Rush]

The Escape is not a worthwhile investment due to resale value. Both Prius and Civic are worth looking at, but ONLY in meeting all the following criteria:

1. You keep the car for 200,000 miles and have no accidents requiring replacement of driveline/engine/generator elements
2. You rack up those 200,000 miles in under five years, to retain some element of resale value more than zero
3. You pony up the extra purchase price moneys over the non-hybrid vehicles

If you cannot meet ALL of the above, a hybrid is nothing more than a feel-good toy. Frankly, I feel better by just driving my SUV less by combining trips and by letting my fingers do the walking.

[Publius6961]

Why must this tired argument keep cropping up?

I did not buy a hybrid for the "savings", or the price.

I bout it because I was challenged when I drove it. I was fascinated by the technology, the instrumentation, the challenge. The new experience.

"I just felt like it" is no longer a choice?

[EagleUSA]

The reality that never gets published (for the most part) is that the bring-back value on hybrids is very weak. Reason: uncertainties about battery life and care mainly. The batteries are very expensive to replace.

Because of the initial retail price tags and depreciation (loss) on value over the term of a lease, for example, do not make them a bargain in any sense. Any real savings is marginal.

[Doohickey]

Saving money is not the reason to buy a hybrid. Same with an H2 or a Corvette.

[Paloma_55]

After 5 years and 75000 miles, it will be time to change the batteries. Check out the impact on resale value that will cause. Who wants to dump a few thousand into a 5 year old car?

But if you don't, what does the resale price do?

I say they are gonna have a real problem selling used hybrids in 5 years.

[reagan_fanatic]

*sigh*

Hybrid technology is still in its early stages. As time goes by and more and more vehicles are built and sold, the technology will improve to the point to where hybrids will be a smart purchase, both financially and ecologically. No technology ever starts out at its peak.

[IamConservative]

I still can't figure how a hybrid is better than a 4 cylinder turbo-charged diesel that gets 50-60 MPG. As diesel made from fossil fuel increases in costs, we will cross the economic viability threshold for biodiesel. This seems like a much greener solution that having millions of cars schlepping lead core batteries around.

[RayChuang88]

One of the big issues up till now with hybrids is that the battery pack consumes a lot of interior space and contributes too much to the dead weight of the car. With the new fast-charging lithium-ion batteries now coming on the market, this will allow automakers to drastically reduce the size of the battery pack, with the advantages of 1) less intrusion into interior space and 2) less dead weight to move around.

The rumored hybrid version of the Honda Fit subcompact coming in April 2007 will likely use these new lightweight battery packs.

[Jeff F]

This morning NPR's story on Prius said that they earn a tax credit of something like $3,400. That is a lot change for the rest of us tax payers to have to fork over to help a bunch of people make fashion statements. This fat subsidy also goes mostly to Japanese car makers who are already creaming their US competition. Nice.

[HamiltonJay]

When you factor in inflation, you will not save $406 to $317

The extra money up front is worth more than money over cost of ownership, because every year the dollar is worth less due to inflation.

Hybrids are joke. TDI is a far better, cheaper and practical solution.

[Paradox]

Ya know there IS a middle ground. I'm very sceptical of the claims for Hybrids, yet on the other hand, I am rooting for technology to help us get away from this dependency on oil. I'm not a greenie, but neither am I a knee jerk anti-environmentalist.

Personally, I think it would be GREAT to move to a NUCLEAR based society, where we use nuclear energy to generate electricity, and then use that to either power our cars, or generate hydrogen to power our cars. And hey, if the alchoholics can bring forth their promised breakthroughs, I'm all for that too...

[from occupied ga]

The article gives and excellent example of the liberal mindset

"I SAVE A BUNDLE." "There is no question that the government should step in at this point and close the gap between the cost of hybrids and gasoline-only cars. It's clear that [hybrids] improve the environment, and I'll pay extra to do the right thing," says Berta Carrolton, a graphic designer who drives a Prius around San Francisco

Notice she says she's willing to pay more, but she wants the government to force everyone else to pay too. What an a$$hole. Liberals - doing what they think is the "right thing" with other people's money.

[Dead Dog]

The Escrape gets worse mileage than the competing Jeep CRD...in town even. Also, the payback of a hybrid is extremely Dependant on driving conditions. If you drive around NYC, or exclusively for Offroad rockcrawling, it has a true thermodynamic advantage.

Also, I'd like to see their payback period with all Gov. subsidies removed.

[Dilbert56]

Another opinion.

[EastCobbRules]

It appears that hybrids, good or bad, are the future and will dominate the auto market at some point.

I wonder what effect that will have on the current automotive repair industry - general automotive repair and transmission repair shops.

Should be interesting.

[RichardW]

It's foolish to believe that one will save money on these unless they are kept a long time. However, they will use less fuel and they recover energy when braking. A properly designed "true hybrid" is essentially transparent in operation except when it is stopped in traffic and the engine shuts down completely.

I purchased my second Escape recently and this one is a hybrid. Just for the record, the fuel mileage is about 50% greater. I just decided I wanted one but not for any reason having to do with the environment. I was quite satisfied with my first Escape (a 2003 model) and the warranty was running out and I just happened to see this new hybrid on the lot and we did the obligatory haggling and reached a price that I could live with. Will I save money? No. Is the psychic satisfaction worth something intangible. Yes.

Let's get real here. Why does anyone buy what they buy? Can anyone justify spending $70K for a Lexus 430 over a well equipped Toyota Camry or Avalon? No. You pays your money and takes your choice.

[TexasRepublic]

The hybrid may be suitable for congested city driving, but offers little or no superiority over conventional cars on the highways. For example, my 1996 Honda Civic (standard transmission) gets 44 mpg at highway speeds.