Modern Aftermath of the Crusades (islam and the west)

Aina.org ^ | 3/12/2006 | Staff

[DariusBane]

The crusades did more to destroy the Byzantine Empire than the Turks.

[rawcatslyentist]

>"A leadership vacuum of Churchillian proportion exists. And no one seems willing to fill it.I am dumbfounded that no leader of world consequence has felt the pull enough to step onto the stage.">"

Ya mean like the beast and the whore? Although I must admit they oftentimes appear interchangeable, as the lines of definition blur between them.

[Ann Archy]

Does anyone know the true story of the killing of Jews by the Crusaders in Jerusalem? I am a Catholic and my Jewish MIL talks about this like it was yesterday. Please HELP!!

[VOA]

bump

[flaglady47]

Something I love, historical truth.

[jimtorr]

I don't recall the details, but as Spencer mentioned in the article, the Crusaders killed many people in the city. It was common practice at the time to sack a city that was taken by storm, and sack included indiscriminate slaughter.

Many Christians were killed, as well as most Muslims and probably Jews as well. Unfortunately, this was one of the periods in Europe when Jews were persecuted on a wide scale.

Post number 2 above references a book that may help.

[plck]

To Muslim is Holy. Anybody become Muslim is Holy. One word from mouth, it is always correct. So, that mean no "liar". For example, if a muslim say "I like this girl". she will belong to him forever. Very strange, against freedom will. To them, they have right to conquer land. You must remember, they follow Abraham and 12 tribe of Israel in Canaan land. No matter how or what, they always right. Anyway, they are everywhere. The only best respond is to pray ROSARY. the only source of weapon that Mother Mary gave to us. Most important, Church must UNITE!!! Become ONE. I can tell you Muslim will felt to ground and start REVENGE and HATRED at us. Be on your guard and pray! MOSES use staff defeat egypt army, why not ROSARY conguer Devil!

[visitor]

later ...rto

[NYer]

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[SJackson]

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[kalee]

ping

[bnelson44]

Yes, they sacked the city. Which was a common practice at the time after surrender terms were refused by the city officials.

[Varda]

The Jews were military allies of the Muslims in some areas. It was apparently the case in Jerusalem. I read about this awhile ago and can't find that source. It takes some work to dig up a real history of this area.

Anyway, the Christian population of Jerusalem had been expelled into a devastated land to starve prior to the arrival of the Crusaders. The Crusaders came upon the survivors of this action and it was a reason they used to put to death the defenders of the city after it was captured.

Here is a source that references that action,
"Within the city a large Fatimid Egyptian force was awaiting their approach. The Egyptian army was well trained and had carefully stocked the city with arms and provisions in anticipation of a protracted siege. Jerusalem's most topographically vulnerable northern fortifications were strengthened. In the surrounding countryside the defending Moslem army had poisoned cisterns and conducted a scorched earth policy in order to deny the advancing Crusaders vital supplies. In order to avoid possible betrayal from within The city's Fatimid rulers expelled its Christian population prior to the Crusaders'arrival."
http://www.biu.ac.il/js/rennert/history_9.html

Here's a book I think would be very instructive (I haven't read it) "The Jew As Ally of the Muslim: Medieval Roots of Anti-Semitism"
by Allan Harris Cutler and Helen Elmquist Cutler
Commentary, http://www.danielpipes.org/article/33

[bboop]

What a fascinating review!! Fascinating theory! Too bad the book is $50. But published by Notre Dame, that is not some fly-by-night publisher.

[paudio]

The crusades did more to destroy the Byzantine Empire than the Turks.

They might have. But it's irrelevant to the argument that the Muslims did capture Constantinople, the second Rome. Plus, it's not like the Muslims was never trying to attack the city before it finally fell.

[DariusBane]

That is a monumental understatement to say that the crusades "might have" contributed. to the end of the Byzantine empire.

The fourth Crusade was essentially used by the Venetians as a ploy to assemble an army and send it against Constantinople. The Christian east never recovered, and left a power vacuum that the Arab Muslims exploited. If you want to argue who started it, and what sparked the first Crusade, and the second and the Richard The Lion Hearted and his third crusade, that was the result of the Arab Muslim Tsunami destroying the Greek world that had existed since Alexander the Great. This included the Ptomlomics, the Seleucid's etc. But to argue that the fourth Crusade was not an evil power grab by scheming Venetians that destroyed the Christan East is just silly.

[SaintDismas]

I am very proud that my two remaining children go to a Catholic high school that has as their sports' team name "Crusaders". Yep. Go Kapaun Crusaders

[Cannoneer No. 4]

First Tank, Can Do Easy

[Patrick_k]

"The Jews were military allies of the Muslims in some areas"

I really doubt this. The 'Israelites', as they were called, did not constitute a compact political entity in any part of the muslim world of the 11th century. But killing the whole population of a city after its defeat was very common. As there was no way to identify friend from foe, especially when they both spoke a same completely different unknown language.

But the fact that Jews were then living in 'relative' peace within moslem communities in the moslem world is very well known to the scholars. Look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides

You might as well have a small idea of what was the intellectual mood in the 12th century.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Armies of the First Crusade took control of Jerusalem in July 1099. This illustration depicts the subsequent sack of the city, during which Crusaders massacred its Egyptian defenders and inhabitants. Having captured the holy city for Christianity, the Crusaders established Jerusalem as the center of the Latin Kingdom.