Posted on 03/16/2006 11:57:00 AM PST by WatchingInAmazement
I call it Free traitor globalism.
No, I pointed out that the USCG's objection was that they didn't think they could find evidence when vetting UAE.
An objection they dropped.
You seem to be very quick to mis-represent what others say.
There is evidence the UAE is a trustworthy ally. There is *no* evidence suggesting they are dangerous to US port security.
Exactly my point -- all the evidence says they're trustworthy.
Yet you decided they were not.
And conservatives are the ones who make policy decisions based on evidence and reason.
Not all. High ranking members of their government have held many meeting with members of Al Quaeda. They have supported Iran.
Do you have any evidence that the UAE have held meetings with members of Al Quaeda recently? Say, since 9/11, when everything changed?
They held meetings with them after the attacks on our embassies in Africa and after the USS Cole attack. Enough said. After looking at both sides it is my deduction they are playing both sides.
We gave you plenty of proof that the UAE supports Hamas, but that's okay with you. I doubt it would bother you if they still support Al Quaeda. But thanks for keeping this fine article bumped!
We gave you plenty of proof that the UAE supports Hamas, but that's okay with you. I doubt it would bother you if they still support Al Quaeda. But thanks for keeping this fine article bumped!
Didn't they catch the Cole bomber and turn him over to us?
What 'meetings' are you talking about, exactly? I'm not familiar with that accusation. Do you have some reference info that would help me determine the veracity of what you're saying?
And the sheikhs are not weeping. $6.8 billion = chump change.
Ya'll gave evidence that the UAE gives humanitarian aid to Hamas and to charities.
Which is not evidence of UAE's supporting terrorism.
So let's see -- on one side, there is ample evidence that the UAE is a trusted US ally. On the other side, the UAE gave humanitarian aid to Hamas and charities.
You *must* have more than just what has been said so far, don't you? Surely you wouldn't have thrown a trusted ally under the bus without good evidence to support you accuastions?
In response to my pointing out that Dubai has a disturbing record as a focal point for terrorist funding, transit, and logistics, you stated:
"Again, do you have any evidence to back that up? Pre-9/11 was a *long* time ago, another world."
Are you serious? First, 9/11 was a long time ago only to those with some rather serious memory problems. We are, after all, engaged in a full scale war on terror at this very moment that commenced with 9/11.
Second, it takes only a modicum of research ability to unearth Dubai's immediate past and present history as a terrorism hub. It is truly odd that this history is utterly ignored by the port deal apologists, who seem to be either wishing it away, or are having some kind of inexplicable difficulty finding what is otherwise "hidden" in plain sight.
A small sampling follows:
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An Unlikely Criminal Crossroads
12/5/05
"From Egypt to Afghanistan, when terrorists and gangsters need a place to meet, to relax, maybe to invest, they head to Dubai, a bustling city-state on the Persian Gulf. The Middle East's unquestioned financial capital, Dubai is the showcase of the United Arab Emirates, an oil-rich federation of sheikdoms. Forty years ago, Dubai was a backwater; today, it hosts dozens of banks and one of the world's busiest ports; its free-trade zones are crammed with thousands of companies. Construction is everywhere--skyscrapers, malls, hotels, and, soon, the world's tallest building."
"But Dubai also serves as the region's criminal crossroads, a hub for smuggling, money laundering, and underground banking. There are Russian and Indian mobsters, Iranian arms traffickers, and Arab jihadists. Funds for the 9/11 hijackers and African embassy bombers were transferred through the city. It was the heart of Pakistani scientist A. Q. Khan's black market in nuclear technology and other proliferation cases."
"Half of all applications to buy U.S. military equipment from Dubai are from bogus front companies, officials say. "Iran," adds one U.S. official, "is building a bomb through Dubai." Last year, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents thwarted the shipment of 3,000 U.S. military night-vision goggles by an Iranian pair based in Dubai. Moving goods undetected is not hard. Dhows--rickety wooden boats that have plowed the Arabian Sea for centuries--move along the city center, uninspected, down the aptly named Smuggler's Creek."
"U.A.E. rulers have taken terrorism seriously since 9/11, but Washington has a half-dozen extradition requests that they refuse to honor. The list includes people accused of rape, murder, and arms trafficking, and the last fugitive of the BCCI banking scandal. The country has put money laundering controls on the books but has made few cases. Interior Minister Sheik Saif bin Zayed Al Nahyan told U.S. News the U.A.E. has made great strides in cracking down, but he insists that the real problems lie elsewhere. "We are a neutral country, like Switzerland," he says. "Give us the evidence, and we will do something about it. Don't blame others." Not everyone agrees. "All roads lead to Dubai," says former treasury agent John Cassara, author of Hide and Seek, a forthcoming book on terrorism finance. Cassara tried explaining U.S. concerns about Dubai to a local businessman but got only a puzzled look: "Mr. John, money laundering? But that's what we do."
-David E. Kaplan
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051205/5terror.b1.htm
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December 29, 2005:
"Retired Professor Emeritus in the mathematics department of Indian Institute of Technology-Delhi, M C Puri, was killed and four serving scientists were injured when an unidentified gunman opened fire indiscriminately on a group of scientists as they were coming out of a conference hall in the prestigious Indian Institute of Science campus in Bangalore on Wednesday." "The explosions were carried out by Dawood Ibrahim, then based in Dubai, with the help of some Mumbai-based Muslims, who were taken to Pakistan via Dubai and got trained and armed by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence."
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/dec/29raman.htm
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“In April of this year, Treasury released a list of Saddam front companies its investigation has so far uncovered, including a major Oil-for-Food contractor in the UAE, Dubai-based Al Wasel & Babel. Along with trying to procure a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system for Saddam, Al Wasel & Babel did hundreds of millions' worth of business with Baghdad under Oil-for-Food, and was just one of some 75 contractors authorized by the U.N. to deal with Saddam out of the UAE. (As it happens, the 9/11 Commission found that some of the hijackers' funding flowed through the UAE, but working backward from the al Qaeda end, the trail eventually vanishes.)"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/436zhuju.asp?pg=2
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March 4, 2004:
WASHINGTON - "America's relations with Pakistan and several other Asian countries have been rocked by the discovery of the vast smuggling network run by the Pakistani nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. Unfortunately, one American ally at the heart of the scandal, Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, seems to be escaping punishment despite its role as the key transfer point in Dr. Khan's atomic bazaar."
"Dubai's involvement is no surprise to those who follow the murky world of nuclear technology sales. For the last two decades it, along with other points in the emirates, has been the main hub through which traffickers have routed their illegal commerce to hide their trails. Yet the United States, which has depended on the emirates as a pillar of relative stability in the Middle East and, since 1991, as a host to American troops, has done little to pressure it to crack down on illicit arms trade."
"In the wake of the Khan scandal, Washington has at least acknowledged the problem. President Bush singled out SMB Computers, a Dubai company run by B. S. A. Tahir, a Sri Lankan businessman living in Malaysia, as a "front for the proliferation activities of the A. Q. Khan network."
"According to the White House, Mr. Tahir arranged for components of high-speed gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium so it can be used in nuclear weapons, to be manufactured in Malaysia, shipped to Dubai and then sent on to Libya. (In its investigation, the Malaysian government implicated another Dubai company, Gulf Technical Industries.)"
"American authorities say that Mr. Tahir also bought centrifuge parts in Europe that were sent to Libya via Dubai. In return for millions of dollars paid to Dr. Khan, Libya's leader, Col. Muammar Qaddafi, was to get enough centrifuges to make about 10 nuclear weapons a year."
"Why ship through Dubai? Because it may be the easiest place in the world to mask the real destination of cargo. Consider how the Malaysian government is making the case for the innocence of its manufacturing company. "No document was traced that proved" the company "delivered or exported the said components to Libya," according to the country's inspector general of police. The real destination, he said, "was outside the knowledge" of the producer. One can be certain that if the Khan ring's European suppliers are ever tracked down, they will offer a similar explanation."
"Dubai provides companies and governments a vital asset: automatic deniability. Its customs agency even brags that its policy on re-exporting "enables traders to transit their shipments through Dubai without any hassles." Next to Dubai's main port is the Jebel Ali free trade zone, a haven for freewheeling international companies. Our organization has documented 264 firms from Iran and 44 from rogue regimes like Syria and North Korea."
"With the laxity of the emirates' laws, there is simply no way to know how many weapon components have passed through. . . ."
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/editorials/2004/dubai-oped-nyt-030404.htm
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Just a little 9/11 connection?
"One of Moussaoui's associates and co-conspirator was Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi, the key financier of the WTC attack. Al-Hawsawi first opened a bank account in a Standard Chartered Bank branch in Dubai, UAE with a cash deposit. On the same day, another of his friends, Fayez Rashid AH Alqadi Bamihammad too opened an account in the same bank. Less than a month later, Bamihammad gave a power of attorney to Hawsawi to operate his accounts. Hawsawi picked up Bamihammad's Visa and ATM cards from the Dubai branch and shipped them to Florida between July 18 and August 1, 2001. Bamihammad was one of the terrorists who flew the United Airlines flight 175 into the World Trade Center's south tower. . . . On September 11, 2001, al-Hawsawi flew from Dubai to Karachi to take shelter."
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And following is an excerpt from an interesting February 18, 2002, Washington Post article:
"The interviews offered a tantalizing glimpse into the critical yet mysterious role played by gold in the finances of Al Qaeda, both before and after the Sept. 11 attacks. Gold has allowed the Taliban and bin Laden largely to preserve their financial resources, despite the military attack that battered their forces in Afghanistan, investigators and intelligence sources said."
"Al Qaeda also used diamonds purchased in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, tanzanite from Tanzania and other commodities to make money and hide assets. But gold played a uniquely important role in the group's financial structure, investigators and intelligence sources said, because it is a global currency."
"'Gold is a huge factor in the moving of terrorist money because you can melt it, smelt it or deposit it on account with no questions asked,' said a senior U.S. law enforcement official investigating gold transactions. 'Why move it through Dubai? Because there is a willful blindness there.'"
"Since it is exempt from international reporting requirements for financial transactions, gold is a favored commodity in laundering money from drug trafficking, organized crime and terrorist activities, U.S. officials said. In addition, Dubai, one of seven sheikhdoms that make up the United Arab Emirates, has one of the world's largest and least regulated gold markets, making it an ideal place to hide."
"Dubai is also one of the region's most open banking centers and is the commercial capital of the United Arab Emirates, one of three countries that maintained diplomatic relations with the Taliban until shortly after Sept. 11. Sitting at a strategic crossroad of the Gulf, South Asia and Africa, Dubai has long been a financial hub for Islamic militant groups. Much of the $500,000 used to fund the Sept. 11 attacks came through Dubai, investigators believe."
"'All roads lead to Dubai when it comes to money,' said Patrick Jost, who until last year was a senior financial enforcement officer in the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. 'Everyone did business there.' When the U.S. bombs began pounding Taliban and Al Qaeda targets last autumn, the rush of gold and money out of Afghanistan intensified."
"The Pakistani financial authorities said that $2 million to $3 million a day is usually hand-carried by couriers from Karachi to Dubai, mostly to buy gold. Late last year that amount increased significantly as money was moved out of Afghanistan, they said."
"Pakistani and U.S. officials estimate that $10 million from Afghanistan was taken out by courier over three weeks in late November and early December. The Taliban's fighters fled Kabul on Nov. 12 and abandoned Kandahar on Dec. 7."
http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/corrupt/2002/0218gold.htm
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"Financial investigators tracking al Qaeda assets rely heavily on data and paper trails from commercial banks and financial regulators in pursuing and investigating leads. Such data have included the tracing of wire transfers between suspected hijacker Mohammed Atta and Shaykh Saiid of Dubai, believed to be one of Osama bin Laden's key financial operatives."
"Unfortunately, these efforts have achieved little success to date in reaching the core of the al Qaeda financial network."
"The problem is that much of the organization's funding mechanisms—like its cells—are small and inconspicuous, often using a traditional Muslim method of money exchange called Hawala."
"Although Pakistan, India, and the Persian Gulf states are home to the largest concentration of Hawala organizations, Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, perhaps handles the largest volume of transactions. The system has global reach. Investigators believe Hawala organizations exist throughout the United States and Europe."
http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/nov02/southAsia.asp
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You might also take the time to read the US State Department's Human Rights reports on the UAE, which will provide some additional useful perspective (patriarchal and tribal rule, trafficking in persons, the predominance of Shari'a law and courts, etc.).
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41734.htm
As I pointed out previously, the UAE is a basic, run-of-the-mill, middle eastern dictatorship. The gaudiness of its current capitalist costume jewelery fools only the willfully blind.
The party is already quite broken.
I applauded loudly at the news that Shawn Hannity is switching to Independent because I believe he epitomizes today's reality in the uber conservative wing of the party and a sign of things that are sure to occur.
For those in Rio-Linda, that means I am convinced that by the close of 2008, the Republican party will have shed it's detractors and can get back to business from the minority, as we will have squandered our power.
This is nothing but a repeat of the Buchanan defections and will be historically repeated, over and over again if the big picture continues to be ignored, in favor of single issue politics and blind advocacy.
Conservative activists have totally screwed the pooch again and ruined our chances of keeping the majority through 08. I don't know what our holdings will be after the blow out and cleanup, but it will be a miracle if we can even keep the Senate. The rest is likely to be handed on a silver platter to the Dem's.
I plan to watch with amusement but with a very bitter aftertaste.
But frankly speaking, it needed to happen, because since the debacle of the Trent Lott, be have been consuming ourselves with gusto and misguided belief that doing so was good for the party. That it is a crack down and not a crack up.
By the end of '08 you will see what a crack up looks like.
Unfortunately, the Democrats being as stupid and disorganized as they are, will not be enough to keep this from happening.
History will rate the Bush presidency as being one of greatness and tragedy, but it will show what a moronic general public and faithless, selfish, and myopic supporters can do to a country and political party.
We will survive it , but at great cost. By 2025, we could find ourselves on the road to number two as a power on this planet, and I doubt military families will want to continue providing their sons and daughters to protect a public that cannot stay the course during a time of war and are so terribly vain as to put minor domestic issues ahead of fighting a war for our very survival.
Of all the shameful things done by conservatives in this party, the worst one is this recent attack on a wartime president and head of the Republican coalition.
Yup.......Just a Bush bot ranting........
After you get done throwing rocks at this vet, take a look in the mirror and see yourself in the way that I see you. It might help. But I doubt it.....
I did not throw a trusted ally under the bus. The whole point is I do nto think they are trustworthy at this tiem and therefore do not want them to have control of the port terminals. And what I have is sufficent for me.
Did you know that Israel actually created Hamas? Yep. It's true.
You stated -- "Ya'll gave evidence that the UAE gives humanitarian aid to Hamas and to charities. Which is not evidence of UAE's supporting terrorism."
This is getting just laughable. What the heck is "humanitarian aid to Hamas"? Funeral expenses for suicide bombers?
Any American caught providing this "humanitarian aid to Hamas" would go to jail. But for the port deal apologists, the UAE's financial support of Hamas miraculously mutates into a fine example of charitable good will.
Is the current progress in the realm of mutual cooperation between the UAE and Iran just another example of beneficence?
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0603061213231619.htm
You mis-quoted me, I'm afraid, then disagreed with your straw man. By accident, I'm sure ;-).
I said, "Pre-9/11 was a long time ago". In other words, 9/11 changed everything. You're quoting connections from before 9/11, which are not relevant in a post-9/11 world.
Since 9/11, UAE has been a steadfast ally of the US. Agreed?
A small sampling follows:
Not one single piece of evidence incriminating the UAE govt or DPW in that long posting.
It's very simple -- just post one piece of evidence showing that DPW or the govt of UAE is a threat to US port security.
Long posts with off-topic mentions of UAE won't help your factual case. Yes, bad things happen in UAE: smuggling, drugs, crime, etc. Like all countries.
Sloppy thinking, indeed; yours however, not mine. The London bombers were mass-murderers breaking the laws and customs of their own country. True sociopaths, but not international terrorists such as the 9/11 attackers. Completely different mind-set and motivation. Moreover; the attack was perpetrated against the UK, not the US. I've shot this one down on no less than 4 seperate occaisions on this board, and have no idea why it keeps coming back up. Complete 'apples-to-oranges' comparison.
The banks passing money doesn't mean they knew what the money was to be used for, obviously.
Correct. Nor made any attempt to despite US calls to investigate terrorism funding. Funding for Al Qaeda was provided, and probably continues to be provided by UAE-based corporations, and Islamic 'charities' operating in the UAE (meaning UAE citizens partly paid for the murder of 3,000+ US citizens)
"“We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.”
--George W. Bush 09.12.01
The UAE had been notified of Taliban/Al Qaeda connections no later than 1998, and asked to clean-up its act. Their reaction: statement of compliance, followed by willful blindness, and possibly, outright collaboration by high-ranking members of the UAE government.
UAE hypocrisy in WOT:
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander; no?
Please note the number of entries added to the US Treasury Department's list of terrorists, since 2000 based in the UAE:
Yes, I understand.
You don't trust the UAE. Even tho there is no evidence to suggest they are a danger to US port security. But evidence be damned, you have enough to cause you to throw them under the bus, even tho they certainly are an ally of ours.
I thought we'd already established that?
What we need to establish is why you are so insistant they can be trusted when I and over 70% of America do not trust them. Deal with it. The free traitors lost this one.
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