[starbase]

What government, civilization, or other form of controlling authority has not resorted to violence at some point in its existence? Murder and explosions are not Muslim-exclusive.

You understate the argument. Islam's sole purpose is conquest of the world through violence, and they have ruled that area for 14 centuries, making them synonymous with the culture there. Like an onion, there's nothing but more onion under each peel. I might go so far as to claim that not only are the Baath party the equivalent of Nazis, but Muslims are the equivalent of Nazis.

But I am interested in your opinion, what will happen if we wait long enough? And I'm not arguing that we should leave now, only that I don't think the culture will change no matter how long we stay there, unlike the 30 year regime in Germany which had a chance of being reversed through an adequate duration of occupation.

[Terpfen]

I'm not understating the argument at all. Iraq is not a historically unique situation, the Baathists are not a historically unique political party. We're not discussing the nature of Islam, we're discussing a comparison made by the Secretary of Defense--one that is correct.

As far as waiting goes, I wouldn't classify what we're doing as waiting. We are training the Iraqi army, rooting out terrorists and their caches, and changing the geopolitical climate of the middle east. All of that requires a substantial amount of effort, not waiting.