The Great (and Continuing) Economic Debate of the 20th Century

Imprimis/Hillsdale College ^ | March 2006 | Steve Forbes

[Toddsterpatriot]

As opposed to 100%.

You want corporate taxes to be 100%?

[durasell]

I'm not an MBA type, but I like business history. Corporations have limited life spans for one reason or another. Sometimes they morph into other companies, like Chrysler, and sometimes they kind of fall apart, like ITT (a corporate giant in the 1950s and 1960s). Railroads were once powerful corporation in America.

So, probably not. They don't live forever like the robot in Terminator.

[CowboyJay]

"Yep. The Chinese will reverse engineer the earth movers and gain a price advantage. Jim will have to whip his R&D guys into a frenzy to design a new earth mover to gain a technical advantage, which the Chinese will then reverse engineer,which will then send Jim back to the R&D guys etc.etc. etc. Progress."

Mmmm... If form holds from the automotive industry, Jim's R&D team will not be able to keep up fast enough. They'll be put out of business, or purchased by a foreign entity who will either re-employ Jim's staff for a pittance, or lay them off outright. The Chinese gain further advantage, and are better able to advance their form of socialist totalitarianism (across our borders, if we don't wise-up).

Money is power. Technology is as well.

Not looking for a flounder in a tree, at all. I'd just rather put down a rabid dog than have myself or family bit. I personally consider America my extended family. Probably a bit sappy, but that's just me. Old Yeller's death was sad, but it had to be done for the safety of the family, and indeed for the good of the pooch itself.

Unfortunately 'Old Yeller' in this case weighs something on the order of 800lbs, and we've nothing to assault it with but sling-shots and ambition. This last row over the DPW deal has obviously gotten his attention (not in a good way). We'll just have to keep reloading until the beast falls. The other option isn't pretty.

[nopardons]

You're the one being ridiculous...in the extreme! Tobacco is NOT "lethal"!

And since you neglected to bother with anything else I posted, I can only surmise that you can't.

[CowboyJay]

"You want corporate taxes to be 100%?"

Heavens no!

I misunderstood your 40% number if that was taxes rather than the percentage of net-profit that actually stayed in-country.

[durasell]

No doubt you are an American who considers himself both a good citizen and patriotic. I consider myself the same. I believe this is something to be admired. However, I don't hold corporations to the same standards as I hold people.

China is set to offer its first car in the U.S. Probably within the next year or so. We'll see how that goes.

[nopardons]

And just WHAT do day traders have to do with your entire position? Are you now claiming that they 1) run the corporations 2) are a "problem" 3) are responsible for corporate "corruption" 4) something else?

Are you aware that "day traders" don't always buy and sell financial instruments the same day?

No, if you are "one little guy", you have NO say in how corporations are run, nor in the day to day operations of any company/corporation!

[nopardons]

Thanks for the suggestion; it sounds like a good book! :-)

[nopardons]

I've both of Mayhew's books and both are wonderful reads.

Charles Dickens used Mayhew's books, to help flesh out many of his characters ( especially in OLIVER TWIST )and to add verisimilitude to his underworld types.

[CowboyJay]

"You're the one being ridiculous...in the extreme! Tobacco is NOT "lethal"!"

Please explain that to my paternal Grandfather. He's dead. Died from lung cancer brought-on by smoking tobacco (onset was 5 years after he'd quit in 1972). Ripe old age of 55, he was. Family history of cancer? Nope. Did he commit suicide, or was he poisoned? You make the call...

Philip Morris execs publicly insisting that there were no health hazards involved in smoking tobacco up until the late '70's. (As of 1961, they already had strong scientific evidence that tar was a carcinogen). Tobacco was even readily available to children in retail outlets at that point in time.

No different than if they'd served him a strychnine-tainted cocktail, and assured him it was safe. It wasn't 100% sure to kill him, but it did.

[nopardons]

Codswallop and bushwah!

Not all smokers die from smoking and most assuredly, not all smokers get lung cancer.

Belated condolences on the death of your grandfather, but please don't use his death, for refutation.

[CowboyJay]

"Not all smokers die from smoking"

Ah... but a good many do. I really haven't much sypmpathy for those nowadays. It's widely known and publicly admitted by the Tobacco Industry. It wasn't back then.

[meadsjn]

BLASPHEMY!

Don't you know that Nuevo Free Trade-ism requires that everyone worship the dogma that, among other things, requires its adherents to believe and chant:

1. Economic systems function entirely independently of political systems.
2. People in any particular free society will happily vote themselves and their families into a third-world mud-hut standard of living, if only they could recognize how great it will be for them.

[nopardons]

No, actually MOST smokers do NOT die from smoking or smoking related diseases.

It was WIDELY known, MORE THAN THREE HUNDRED YEARS AGO that smoking tobacco was "harmful". I suggest that YOU need to do a lot more reading about historical things. :-)

You really are quite out of your depth here.

[Old_Mil]

It was WIDELY known, MORE THAN THREE HUNDRED YEARS AGO that smoking tobacco was "harmful". I suggest that YOU need to do a lot more reading about historical things. :-)

300 years ago they didn't even know about germ theory. People were given mercury as a drug and died as a result of mercury poisoning. Amputation and bleeding were common. There was no CDC, no epidemiological studies, and no real understanding of what cancer, emphysema, etc were.

[1rudeboy]

The current situation only worries me in that I am a nationalist, and as such, would prefer to see American Peters and Pauls stay firmly ahead of those in other nations (mutual survival and prosperity qualifies as a worthy goal in my book). I'm also rather fond of our form of governance that allows us to play the Peter-Paul game in a delightful and entertaining fashion.

Now we approach the crux of the matter. Whether it is removing the shield from liability of shareholders, or banning the manufacture of "ephedrinates," you are suggesting a course of action that requires a greater level of collectivism¹. Yet in your mind, "The modern multi-national corporation is a form of collectivism." [emphasis added]

Personally, I am curious to see what word you would use to describe the method of achieving the outcome you seek. Steve Forbes' distinction between "collectivists" and "free-marketers" is central to his essay, and he probably couldn't imagine anyone who would disagree with his terminology. He would be astounded to discover that, according to you, he got it completely backward: the free-marketers are the collectivists.

_____
¹col·lec·tiv·ism
Function: noun
: a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control

[1rudeboy]

U.S. corporations pay roughly 38% tax to the U.S. Treasury on their world-wide income.

That's right, you heard it correctly, our government gets a cut of that U.S. ping-pong ball plant in Shanghai. There are any number of ways to limit that tax liability, but not eliminate it. I can explain how, for a fee.

[Tolik]

Steve Forbes absolutely Nailed It!

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[1rudeboy]

I think Toddsterpatriot brought-up an excellent point. Are we to hold Enron employees (say, the receptionists) liable for the criminal activity of their bosses? They were foolish enough to participate in the ESOP, after all.

[Tolik]

I did too. I agree, he would have made a fine President.