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To: Izzy Dunne
Can Western enlightenment and power, embedded in deep cynicism, still prevail over ignorance and self-inflicted pathology energized by fanaticism?

Hopefully.
But I think it is fair to say that we are unprepared to do it.
Democracy and Freedom are antithetical to Islamic fundamentalism; Islamists believe that the only viable laws are those given by God; Secular democracy and governing based on anything but Sharia is Apostasy.

Forced conversion would require a lot more planning, money and killing than we have been able to muster thus far; Will it end Islamism? By asking Islamists to join a better way of living, we are asking them to abandon God and the teachings of Islam. The West certainly had it's Dark Ages; Rationalists were imprisoned and persecuted for challenging religious tradition and teaching; Galileo died in prison for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the Sun. The West escaped its ideological prison by the fall of fundamentalist thought hegemony.

Islamists are deeply connected to a supernatural philosophy alien to Western secularism. Personally, I don't think their escape can be imposed by force. "Democratizing" Arabia before the dominance of Islamic fundamentalism is eradicated or allowed to abate is a recipe for disaster- see Hamas, Palestine and Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt and an Afghan constitution (under our auspices) that makes Apostasy a Capital crime.

Its all well and good to say lets go over and kick some butt and establish democracy, but are we ready to be a persistent occupier of people who are fundamentally antagonistic to western ideals? How much will it cost my children and grandchildren to maintain "democracy" in the Middle East? The end of WWII in was accompanied by adandonment of irrational German racial ideals and belief in fascism; also by abandonment by the Japanese of imperialism; these were human ideals and hence fallible; do we really expect fundamentalist Muslims to abandon their religous teachings and accept Western-style democracy?
13 posted on 03/31/2006 6:21:08 AM PST by drational
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To: drational

Printing it out now to read it all a little later.

Your comments are well said, drational.


14 posted on 03/31/2006 6:26:29 AM PST by meema (I am a Conservative Traditional Republican, NOT an elitist, sexist, cynic or right wing extremist!)
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To: drational
Democracy and Freedom are antithetical to Islamic fundamentalism.

To survive in this world, Islam particularly on the fringe must change. Only possible instigator of such a remolding change is an "existential crucible." For example: Iraq falling to pieces is unthinkable. Disparate elements must pull together and that means making its Constitution real.

Forced conversion would require a lot more planning, money and killing than we have been able to muster thus far.

I think madrassas will have to be smashed, but it must be modern (as opposed to moderate) Muslims doing the smashing.

The end of WWII in was accompanied by adandonment of irrational German racial ideals and belief in fascism; also by abandonment by the Japanese of imperialism; these were human ideals and hence fallible; do we really expect fundamentalist Muslims to abandon their religous teachings and accept Western-style democracy?

We don't have the luxury that this can happen as quickly. After World War II, without the clarity of all-out War and its results, global conflicts are long-term.

20 posted on 03/31/2006 10:16:23 AM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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