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Letter to Editor - Illegal Immigration - Ask Bishop when is okay to break law!
Georgia Bulletin ^ | 3/30/2006 | Lisa Olwine

Posted on 04/01/2006 1:05:20 PM PST by petkus

LETTER To the Editor. A s a Catholic who struggles to reconcile the U.S./Mexican illegal immigration crisis with Christian principles, I was grateful to see and eager to read Bishops Gregory and Boland's pastoral letter on immigration reform. However, after studying the document I was disappointed and dismayed—not by what was said but by what was left unsaid.

Expecting a comprehensive exploration of the moral responsibilities of all parties involved, I found the overwhelming focus of the letter to be, in essence, the failure of U.S. taxpayers to be sufficiently generous to those who reside here illegally. While I appreciated our bishops' insistence on the protection of the human rights of all immigrants, legal status or no, it is only one part of the moral equation.

Entirely ignored was the question of the extent to which immigrants are morally obligated to observe a country's laws governing entrance and residence. And if one's moral obligation to abide by the law is mitigated by one's difficult financial circumstances, how are we to discern to which situations this moral leniency does and does not apply? If 1 am in dire financial straits through no fault of my own, may I, with moral impunity, choose to cheat on my taxes (say, by forging Social Security numbers to obtain tax credits for nonexistent offspring) rather than attempt the lengthy process of going through the proper IRS channels for possible relief? Consistent pastoral guidance for individuals in such situations is essential.

Moreover, unlawful activity begets more of the same. Because they have chosen to enter the U.S. by other than legitimate means, illegal immigrants must choose between having their illegal status discovered or the breaking of additional laws—e.g., driving without a license or driving with a forged license. Paradoxically, the thing that gives the U.S. its stability—its rule of law—is the very thing being undermined by those who seek the stability offered by this country. To what degree can the escalating unlawfulness be morally justified? At what point does Jesus' injunction to "render unto Caesar" become applicable?

Referenced only in passing within the pastoral letter is the moral obligation of Mexico (a developed country with natural resources) to rise to its potential and provide adequate opportunities for its own citizens. As jointly stated by U.S. and Mexican bishops, its failure to do so is the root problem of illegal immigration. What pressure are Mexican bishops exerting to make their government more accountable to its people? Do not measures (by both the U.S. and Mexico) that embolden and encourage illegal immigrants ultimately serve to enable Mexico to persist in its dysfunctional state? If so, are our good intentions perhaps misguided compassion? If a person is not seeking asylum due to starvation, persecution, etc., is he ever morally bound not to simply abandon his troubled country but to work toward, fight for its improvement?

The purpose of my letter is not to argue but to beseech our bishops to shepherd us to a comprehensive understanding of the morality involved in all the various components of this dilemma.

Lisa Olwine Lawrenceville


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderlist
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This the letter that every proponent of illegal immigration should read.

When is okay to break the law?

1 posted on 04/01/2006 1:05:21 PM PST by petkus
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To: petkus

This Catholic says the Catholic bishops are a**holes.


2 posted on 04/01/2006 1:26:31 PM PST by Pittsburg Phil
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To: petkus

Great letter to the editor.


3 posted on 04/01/2006 1:28:47 PM PST by Talking_Mouse (Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: petkus

If these illegal immigrants were Baptists or Holy Rollers, the Catholic church would be less interested in their welfare. Why? Because the Catholic church has a horse in this race. Falling revenues, falling church attendance have plagued the US church, and here come millions of devout Spanish speaking Catholics pouring over the border. Of course the church wants them coddled and cared for. They can hear the jingle of coins hitting that collection plate on Sunday morning.


4 posted on 04/01/2006 1:33:28 PM PST by hershey
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To: hershey

Damn, that sounds so cynical. But 1000% correct.


5 posted on 04/01/2006 1:51:30 PM PST by isrul
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To: petkus

At St Peters in the Vatican the Swiss guards keep out people based on the clothes they wear ... how about we just keep out people with bandanas ?


6 posted on 04/01/2006 2:02:40 PM PST by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: petkus

Amen. That is an excellent letter. Catholic bishops, above all, should be cognizant of the proper authority of law and the virtue of obedience.


7 posted on 04/01/2006 2:10:55 PM PST by Flying Circus
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To: petkus

Repeal the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church. Let them share in the tax burden of the average citizen for supporting illegals.


8 posted on 04/01/2006 2:11:04 PM PST by bordergal
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To: petkus; All

I do have a problem with the government interfering in the Church's religious-based activity, whether it be requiring the Church to let gays adopt children (Massachusetts) or making the Church report illegal aliens. Providing for the needy is a Catholic requirement, and laws that raise the specter of criminal liability for doing just that are an impediment to free exercise of religion.


9 posted on 04/01/2006 2:18:50 PM PST by hispanichoosier
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To: hershey
Falling revenues, falling church attendance have plagued the US church, and here come millions of devout Spanish speaking Catholics pouring over the border. Of course the church wants them coddled and cared for. They can hear the jingle of coins hitting that collection plate on Sunday morning.

Nice theory. But, it doesn't fly. These people have no coins to drop in the collection plate. They are just as much a liability to the Catholic Church as they are to society in general.

10 posted on 04/01/2006 2:22:00 PM PST by Barnacle (You heard it here first.)
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To: bordergal

No, they get to say their mind on these matters. They have an obligation to do so. WHy they chose the Dark Side on this issue is beyond me though.

It's candidate endorsement they aren't allowed to do.


11 posted on 04/01/2006 2:36:17 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (REAL men vote Republican)
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To: petkus; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...


Christian Charity Ping!

Okay, when is it right to break the law? I believe Christian charity applies when you encounter a beggar by the roadside or at your front door...

I do not believe it applies to the thief who sneaks over the fence and into the sheep pen. As it turns out, that is one of the parables in the Gospel of John.

12 posted on 04/01/2006 2:39:09 PM PST by HiJinx (~ www.proudpatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~)
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To: HiJinx

BTTT


13 posted on 04/01/2006 2:42:21 PM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: hershey
"Of course the church wants them coddled and cared for. They can hear the jingle of coins hitting that collection plate on Sunday morning."

Not the experience in Chicago. Mexicans move in while Poles or Lithuanians leave for better neighborhoods. In a matter of time, the Catholic schools and churches start closing. Mexicans do NOT throw money (or sufficient money) into the basket on Sundays.

I got married in St. George's Church in 1974. At one time, the neighborhood was solid old Lithuanian DPs. Kids got married, moved to the suburbs and the old-timers died-off. Mexicans moved in.

The church was leveled a few years ago, and I believe the grammar school is closed too. The churches that stay open in Mexican neighborhoods are piss-poor.
14 posted on 04/01/2006 2:45:16 PM PST by toddlintown (Lennon takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko is standing right next to him and not one f'ing bullet?)
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To: hispanichoosier

"Providing for the needy is a Catholic requirement"

Let them go to Mexico and do it.

If they do it here, toss their commie backsides in jail!

You don't have to ask, I have nothing but contempt for the catholic church.


15 posted on 04/01/2006 2:51:05 PM PST by dalereed
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To: Barnacle
Nice theory. But, it doesn't fly. These people have no coins to drop in the collection plate. They are just as much a liability to the Catholic Church as they are to society in general.

Illegals send several billions of dollars back to Mexico yearly. The transfer of money to Mexico from America is the second largest source of revenue after oil revenues for Mexico

You are sadly mistaken if you believe the Catholic church is not eyeing tapping this revenue stream for itself

16 posted on 04/01/2006 2:51:59 PM PST by Rooivalk
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To: HiJinx

Yes, the thief comes to steal and destroy.


17 posted on 04/01/2006 2:53:05 PM PST by monkeywrench (Deut. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbor's landmark)
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To: hershey
Because the Catholic church has a horse in this race. Falling revenues, falling church attendance have plagued the US church, and here come millions of devout Spanish speaking Catholics pouring over the border. Of course the church wants them coddled and cared for. They can hear the jingle of coins hitting that collection plate on Sunday morning.

You're spreading Jack-Chick-like propaganda.

The Catholic Church in the United States has had the current stance on immigration for 30 years. Go back and read some pastoral letters in the 1980s. They're identical to those issued today.

And the canard that the bishops are encouraging illegal immigration to make up for a revenue shortfall is idiotic. There is no shortfall; collections are back up to where they were prior to 2002.

Hispanics, as a whole, do not contribute to the Church. That is a statistical fact.

18 posted on 04/01/2006 2:57:06 PM PST by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: HiJinx
I do not believe it applies to the thief who sneaks over the fence and into the sheep pen. As it turns out, that is one of the parables in the Gospel of John.

It is, but Jesus meant for it to apply to the Pharisees, not illegals.

19 posted on 04/01/2006 2:58:49 PM PST by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: dalereed
You don't have to ask, I have nothing but contempt for the catholic church.

You have contempt for lots of things and people.

You're going to drop dead from all that anger.

20 posted on 04/01/2006 2:59:47 PM PST by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: HiJinx
I believe Christian charity applies when you encounter a beggar by the roadside or at your front door...

I know of nothing in the Gospels that authorizes being "charitable" with other people's money. If one wishes to exercise true Christian charity toward poor Latin Americans, one will donate one's own money to charitable organizations working in Latin America (or go down there to do good works oneself).

21 posted on 04/01/2006 3:00:51 PM PST by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Rooivalk
You are sadly mistaken if you believe the Catholic church is not eyeing tapping this revenue stream for itself

No he's not. The Church loses money ministering to illegals. Legal Hispanics don't donate to the Church much.

22 posted on 04/01/2006 3:00:52 PM PST by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: Rooivalk
Illegals send several billions of dollars back to Mexico yearly.

Right. So why should they give to a church in this country when they can send it to their families?

No, I think it is just that batch of liberal bishops, who allowed child molestation, trying to get some brownie points to atone for their sins.

Why don't the Mexican bishops tell the people to stay in Mexico and work for its improvement?

23 posted on 04/01/2006 3:01:20 PM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: petkus

Wow. Great letter. Well-written.


24 posted on 04/01/2006 3:02:06 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Pittsburg Phil

The Bishops are following the policy set down by theor Vatican masters.

Immigration trumps American law.


25 posted on 04/01/2006 3:03:43 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: dalereed

Dear dalereed,

"You don't have to ask, I have nothing but contempt for the catholic [sic] church [sic]."

Then I have nothing but pity for you.

I'll pray for you.


sitetest


26 posted on 04/01/2006 3:05:12 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: RS

Kick out Harley Riders?


27 posted on 04/01/2006 3:14:57 PM PST by Brytani (Someone stole my tagline - reward for its return!!!)
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To: hershey; Salvation; onyx; cyborg; ArrogantBustard; GipperGal; Unam Sanctam; Mo1; Coleus; NYer; ...
If these illegal immigrants were Baptists or Holy Rollers, the Catholic church would be less interested in their welfare. Why? Because the Catholic church has a horse in this race. Falling revenues, falling church attendance have plagued the US church, and here come millions of devout Spanish speaking Catholics pouring over the border. Of course the church wants them coddled and cared for. They can hear the jingle of coins hitting that collection plate on Sunday morning.

And the parade of baseless anti-Catholic slurs rolls on. At least this one hasn't yet called the Bishops pigs.

28 posted on 04/01/2006 3:15:31 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: hershey

My sis in law works at a Catholic parish and that is exactly what she told me.....money. Last year they did over 1800 baptisms. I asked how many were to illegal alien parents, she said at least 50%.


29 posted on 04/01/2006 3:15:50 PM PST by sheana
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To: dalereed
I have nothing but contempt for the catholic church.

And hate.

30 posted on 04/01/2006 3:16:53 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: Petronski; hershey; isrul

Dont't leave out isrul


31 posted on 04/01/2006 3:18:11 PM PST by onyx (Elections are in November, 06 ---- 08 can wait!)
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To: Barnacle

Exactly - every study I've seen on the 11 million illegals in our nation always come at the lower end of the economic scale.

Even if they follow the rule of a 10% tithe and make minimum wage....

$5.15 x 2080 = $10,712 yr (minimum wage based on full-time 40hr work week) 10% 1,712 pr year into the church.

A middle Class income of $50,000 gives the Church $5,000 a year.

I'd venture a guess, the middle class income person wouldn't be coming to the Church for financial charitable assistance anywhere near the percentage of lower income would.

The "let em in for money" crowd do not have facts on their side.


32 posted on 04/01/2006 3:19:24 PM PST by Brytani (Someone stole my tagline - reward for its return!!!)
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To: Petronski
I don't know if this is a 'slur', but if the Catholic bishops encourage their Churches to break the law they need to face the business end of a RICO prosecution.

Noone should be above the law, not even a Bishop.

BTW, this is the same organization that knowingly conspired to hide pedophiles for several decades thereby unleashing them on unsuspecting parishioners.

IMO they should have been prosecuted as a corrupt organization for that alone.

L

33 posted on 04/01/2006 3:22:11 PM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everyone else shows me their hands.)
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To: Lurker

Hypothetically speaking, manifestly immoral laws should be disobeyed. I certainly hope you agree with that general principle.


34 posted on 04/01/2006 3:27:08 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: sinkspur
Ok (flame suit on for this post).

I'm in Homestead Florida, an overwhelmingly Mexican population with a pretty good sized Haitian community. Both groups tend to be Catholic. The one Catholic Church here is not doing well financially.

I drive 30 minutes up the road to my parish which happens to be in a high Cuban American population area and we have a large (probably majority) Cuban population in our parish. We're one of the "richest" parishes in Florida and consistently are at the top of the list in charitable contributions in Miami-Dade.

I think Cubans tend support Churches more simply because it was denied to them or their parents under Castro. Maybe it's because economically Cubans are better off financially than Mexicans in this area. Who knows, but I can tell you, Hispanic Cubans give A LOT to the Church.
35 posted on 04/01/2006 3:27:39 PM PST by Brytani (Someone stole my tagline - reward for its return!!!)
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To: Brytani

"Kick out Harley Riders?"

Be serious ... these are border guards, not Marines :-)


36 posted on 04/01/2006 3:28:09 PM PST by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: Petronski
Hypothetically speaking, you're correct.

However, there is nothing 'manifestly immoral' about enforcing our immigration laws and punishing those who break them with impunity.

As far as I'm concerned the American Catholic Church lost any claim to moral high ground when they engaged in a massive conspiracy to protect pedophiles in their employ.

They should have their tax exemption yanked and be prosecuted under the RICO statutes for that alone.

L

37 posted on 04/01/2006 3:35:32 PM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everyone else shows me their hands.)
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To: sinkspur
The Church loses money ministering to illegals. Legal Hispanics don't donate to the Church much.

Really? So, not only is our governmental generosity being abused but so are the charities'. That's so much better.

38 posted on 04/01/2006 3:43:04 PM PST by raybbr
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To: dalereed
"Providing for the needy is a Catholic requirement" Let them go to Mexico and do it. If they do it here, toss their commie backsides in jail! You don't have to ask, I have nothing but contempt for the catholic church.

Ah, let's see.

The Feds aren't deporting illegals. Local governments aren't deporting illegals. You can't get a local law enforcement officer anywhere to deport illegals.

Continuing on...

Our judges protect illegals. Public soup kitchens feed illegals. Employers are hiring illegals. Many an average citizen has their lawn cut by illegals.

The Hospitals treat them. The public schools educate them.

Non-religious charities of all stripes don't ask for papers when helping the needy.

But when the Catholic church does so all hell breaks loose.

Pathetic.

39 posted on 04/01/2006 3:51:19 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Brytani

Dear Brytani,

The average NON-HISPANIC Catholic typically donates 2.2% of income to charity, with about half that going to the Church.

Apparently, Hispanic Catholics donate less.


sitetest


40 posted on 04/01/2006 3:53:10 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Cindy; Domestic Church

ping~


41 posted on 04/01/2006 3:56:23 PM PST by JustPiper (Illegals are NOT being denied Civil Rights...That is for U.S. Civil-ians Fool !)
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To: hershey
Hallelujah!

My, my how the truth refreshes!

42 posted on 04/01/2006 4:00:25 PM PST by VOYAGER
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To: Lurker
As far as I'm concerned . . .

They should have their . . .

Why not repeat it again? I know your hate makes it important to vilify them as much as possible. Maybe it could be your tagline.

43 posted on 04/01/2006 4:00:26 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: HiJinx
Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant!


44 posted on 04/01/2006 4:01:39 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Petronski
If hating pedophiles and those who enable them makes me some kind of monster then I happily plead guilty.

What do you think would be an appropriate response to an organization that knowingly shielded dozens of pedophiles from prosecution for decades?

I'd love to hear your views on that little matter.

Who was it that said "Put not your faith in the princes of men."? L

45 posted on 04/01/2006 4:14:11 PM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everyone else shows me their hands.)
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To: dalereed

"Providing for the needy is a Catholic requirement"

Let them go to Mexico and do it.
___________________________________________________

Good advice and hoping the Roman Catholics will support more missions down there. Somehow I think that lots of fat and contented priests in the US colleges and seminaries won't go. They're (not all) too busy accommodating the secularists.


46 posted on 04/01/2006 4:16:27 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: sinkspur
collections are back up to where they were prior to 2002.

Maybe where you are. They are not in many places. Attendance is down. Revenues are down. Legal bills are way up.

47 posted on 04/01/2006 4:22:10 PM PST by ladyjane
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To: petkus

What I really resent is belief that America's borders are not acknowledged by the Catholic church or at least by much of the Catholic church in America. How about the rest of Americans who are not Catholic? Our opinions on illegal immigration don't matter one darn bit to the Church!!


48 posted on 04/01/2006 4:24:41 PM PST by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: petkus
Entirely ignored was the question of the extent to which immigrants are morally obligated to observe a country's laws governing entrance and residence. And if one's moral obligation to abide by the law is mitigated by one's difficult financial circumstances.......

I have never heard of people starving in Mexico or Central America. They may be poor and diet may be limited but they are not starving down there.

49 posted on 04/01/2006 4:28:46 PM PST by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: petkus
From the letter:

What pressure are Mexican bishops exerting to make their government more accountable to its people?

Mexican Bishops have not be able to speak out against the government since Emperor Maximillian seized all church property and split the Catholic Church of Mexico away from Rome. Since the Cristero Wars it has been illegal for any Church to speak out against the Mexican government or it's policies. It's in their Constitution.

50 posted on 04/01/2006 4:35:21 PM PST by I got the rope
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