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Homeowners Associations: Many Consider Them Fighting Words
LA Times ^ | 4.3.06

Posted on 04/03/2006 11:20:58 AM PDT by iPod Shuffle

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To: camle

I was elected to the board in my community by the people in the community, just like any representative government.

HOAs are the perfect lowest-level form of government, providing for the common good and managing the common assets of a community.

The rules are what the people in the community want them to be. If you don't want to live in a place where a majority gets to rule, don't move into a community handled by an HOA. But some of us like they idea that our property rights can extend to the value and enjoyment of our property through the judicious use of rules which bind us all to a social contract.

I happen to think HOAs are necessary because we have lost our sense of community -- and actually they don't work nearly as well. I wish we could just count on our neighbors NOT to park their cars in front of our mailboxes, not to let their dogs run loose, not to let their grass grow to meadow-like proportions, or to allow weeds to overrun our boundaries.

I wish a simple request would keep them from having a party on a school night until 2am with loud music, or common sense would keep them from painting the house hot pink with a purple roof.

But we have lost that sense of community, and so instead we enter into freely-chosen associations where we make laws based on democratic principles. We for example don't let you park a boat in your back yard, but if 2/3rds of the people in the community want boats in back yards they can change the rules.

Some HOAs are like dictatorships, I just hate the broad-brush condemenations of what is in essense government being passed down to the lowest possible level, which in fact is a good conservative principle.


61 posted on 04/03/2006 12:02:40 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: mysterio
It's not voluntary if you are foced to sign it as a condition of sale.

Following your logic, then, a purchaser shouldn't be required to pay the seller the purchase price either. After all, paying the purchase price is a condition of sale.

No one should have to sign their property rights away to a non-owner as a condition of sale.

Until you buy a piece of property, you have no property rights to it. When you buy a piece of property, you buy it subject to whatever conditions the seller places on the deed. You are free not to buy the property if you do not like the conditions.

62 posted on 04/03/2006 12:02:40 PM PDT by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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To: Politicalmom
I just got a notice scolding me for "storing my lawn mower in a visible place". It was sitting in front of the house for one afternoon because I was waiting for my husband to start it because I couldn't get it started.

We got a letter once to "residents" reminding everyone that the trash can had to be stored behind the fence. I think it was aimed at us. We had been called out of town for a funeral (unexpected) and the teenager we hired to take care of the dog just put the trash can up by the garage. Horror of horrors. Strange, no one sent us a sympathy card.

63 posted on 04/03/2006 12:05:48 PM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Realism; Potowmack
The reason that I asked the question was a case I remember from a neighborhood near Baltimore where a long-time resident was getting hit by a new homeowners association formed by yuppies who were moving into the neighborhood.

And this wasn't a case of her keeping a messy yard or anything but she'd replaced her front-door frame with a non-period frame to help keep the weather out.

Of course, I just remembered while typing this that they'd had the neighborhood declared a "historic district" and they were demanding that the new renovations be removed.

I don't think I ever heard how that one played out but it did make me wonder about when these sorts of folks could legally lay this sort of claim on your personal property.

We all know that it's not right that they should be able to but that doesn't mean that they legally can't.
64 posted on 04/03/2006 12:06:10 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: peacebaby

My brother is a member of an HOA and he and his wife have to travel a lot. As a result of not being able to contantly monitor everything about their house and yard, they are always in trouble with their HOA for something or other. This is the wrong color, that is the wrong size, that is too close, this is too far away, cut that, trim this, etc. It never seems to end.


65 posted on 04/03/2006 12:07:53 PM PDT by L98Fiero (I'm worth a million in prizes.)
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To: MikeWUSAF

If the car's a gonner, use the trunk as a flower bed.

When anyone asks, call it recycling!


66 posted on 04/03/2006 12:08:36 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: iPod Shuffle

Unfortunately, HOA and convenants and restrictions are a neccessary beast in todays world if you wish to maintain the value of a subdivision. 99.9% do almost nothing and have little or no problems. It's that 0.1% that make life hell for everyone.


67 posted on 04/03/2006 12:08:54 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Aren't most of the complaints you just listed covered by municipal ordinances? Noise ordinances, health ordinances etc? I don't get the HOA connection. Do you have a police force?


68 posted on 04/03/2006 12:10:15 PM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: L98Fiero

our association isn't as bad as all that...but I do wonder about the homeowners who have to travel.

I have learned that once the HOA got to "know" us, they calmed down.

I added onto my house, and jumping through the HOA hoops was exasperating, but in the long run, all of my efforts paid off.


69 posted on 04/03/2006 12:10:53 PM PDT by peacebaby (living fast forward, now I need to rewind real slow)
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To: FormerLib
Of course, I just remembered while typing this that they'd had the neighborhood declared a "historic district" and they were demanding that the new renovations be removed.

That wasn't the HOA- to get the neighborhood declared a Historic District, you need to go to the local government. The HOA doesn't have the power over anyone who doesn't voluntarily join the HOA.

The HOA got the neighborhood declared a Historic District, then they went and complained to the zoning board. It's a little different.

70 posted on 04/03/2006 12:13:20 PM PDT by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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To: Wolfie

Plant Kudzu.


71 posted on 04/03/2006 12:13:24 PM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: FormerLib
"historic district"

Not the same as HOA. Thats Zoning.

72 posted on 04/03/2006 12:13:31 PM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: TXBubba

Actually, we don't need a municipality-wide law if we have HOAs. So if you have a group of people who LIKE to party until 2am, you set up a neighborhood, write up an HOA policy allowing it, and everybody who moves in understands the rules.

That's a poor example to be sure, but that is the essence of HOA policy. Allow each neighborhood to tailor to the needs of its people. For example, our HOA allows old-style TV antennas, many of them don't.

at some level you could control things through county-wide laws, but our county is over 300,000 people. But our county is for example trying to ban parking boats on the street (just in half the county though). We can't in an HOA do this, because the streets don't belong to us -- but if we could, each neighborhood could decide for itself, rather than having a majority of people in the county dictate a single rule which restricts people in places where nobody would mind boats.


73 posted on 04/03/2006 12:15:23 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Amen! I'm a volunteer on my HOA board and it's certainly not for any feeling of power. I donate my time because there are many people (apparently some on this site!) that believe they can do anything: paint their house electric pink, let their dogs run free, park their cars wherever they want, permanently display yard signs showing their affiliations, etc.

For my donated time, I get nothing but grief from people who are so silly that they shouldn't be allowed out without adult supervision.

To all you anti-HOA folks: anytime you get more than a few people together, you better have some rules of behavior. It's been my experience that the rest of us need to be protected from the actions and self-centeredness of about 20% of the people out there (regardless of socio-economic factors) who, if they were any more stupid, would need watering twice a week.


74 posted on 04/03/2006 12:16:15 PM PDT by fritzthecat (I only regret my economies)
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To: Realism; Potowmack

How it happens is fairly immaterial to me, what mattered is that this woman had lost certain rights to her own property through no action or inaction of her own.

I just thought it stunk.

But I'll consider it to be good news if it's a fact that an HOA can't pull the same sort of thing!


75 posted on 04/03/2006 12:16:59 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: MadeInAmerica

yes I do, and that's HIS problem. if I assert the right to solve his problems to my satisfactcion, he automatically gets the right to solve mine to his.

no thanks.


76 posted on 04/03/2006 12:18:07 PM PDT by camle (Keep your mind open and somebody will fill if full of something for you.)
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To: iPod Shuffle
If you are stuck in a HOA community and it isn't working for you- take it back. I stood up to mine, backed up with all the laws and regulations our state has governing these bodies but the HOA doesn't bother to mention or inform owners about.

Any questions on how to do this, please FReepmail me.
77 posted on 04/03/2006 12:18:50 PM PDT by brothers4thID (Being lectured by Ted Kennedy on ethics is not unlike being lectured on dating protocol by Ted Bundy)
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To: camle; HOTTIEBOY; Tzimisce; Hoodlum91; nina0113; AppyPappy; longtermmemmory; Lester Moore; ...
I'd like to know if some of you people who criticize the HOA, knowingly signed the contract thinking you weren't going to follow the rules. You probably bought your place because it was neat and tidy. But, had no intention of keeping your place in the same condition. As I stated in my previous statement, I'm on the board because we have a hard time filling vacancies! IT's work and nobody wants to do work for free....you people just want to complain. I joined becuz I want to keep the place looking nice and keep our maintenance fees low! We have a majority fiscally conservative board right now....we get bids for everything and limit what we spend the money on. In my association, we have Zero lot line...yet people think that the land around the house is theirs.

I don't want to live around a bunch of old trucks, plastic swimming pools in the front lawn, flower pots or garbage piled in front of the house, extra fences being put up, cars parked on the lawn, filthy barrel tile roofs, advertising signs on the cars and homes or dog poop on my lawn....all of which we had to send out letters for and fight homeowners over. I also don't give a rats @$$ what you do for a living or any of your other personal business....I could care less. Just keep your place clean and I won't even know your name....don't want to know your name. I'm just glad that you people who think we are all nazi's and who just want power (it's just a hassle and aggravating work!!) to either HELP OUT ON THE BOARD....(and give me a break)...or just go live in them Virgina hills you are used to and happily hang your laundry outside next to your old pickup up on blocks....and stay out of my community. I like living in a nice neat place...and I like the prices we are getting for our lovely homes because of our lower fee and NEAT appearance....

So shut up, help out or get out.

78 posted on 04/03/2006 12:19:39 PM PDT by Fawn (ILLEGALS--> GET OUT AND GO HOME.)
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To: FormerLib
But I'll consider it to be good news if it's a fact that an HOA can't pull the same sort of thing!

If you're not a member, a HOA can't do anything to you.

Our HOA is pretty good. They collect the checks and pay the lawn, snow shoveling and garbage companies. I live in DC, so I'm in one of the few neighborhoods in the city with a HOA. Our houses go for about $100K more than nearly identical houses across the street that don't have a HOA.

79 posted on 04/03/2006 12:20:29 PM PDT by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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To: Skooz

"I would live in a dumpster before I would allow some tinhorn, power crazed, politbureau to have any say over so much as a single blade of grass on my property."

Here Here!!

Well said!

Top sends


80 posted on 04/03/2006 12:22:02 PM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG! ("On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" by Dave Grossman))
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