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Microsoft: Don't Sell PCs Without Operating Systems
ZDNet ^ | 4/5/06 | Graeme Wearden

Posted on 04/05/2006 2:04:05 PM PDT by steve-b

Naked PCs: Free software supporters are angry that Microsoft is putting pressure on PC vendors not to sell machines without an operating system installed

Microsoft has urged UK PC vendors not to give customers the opportunity to buy a PC without a pre-installed operating system....

The FSF Europe is alarmed by the prospect that customers who request a base systems would risk a visit from Microsoft's investigators.

"It looks like a private sniffing service which is supposed to spy on these who do not want to pay the Microsoft tax anymore. It is an incredible piece of impudence which any politician, customer and journalist should recognise carefully," said Jakobs....

(Excerpt) Read more at news.zdnet.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: computer; linux; microsoft; monopoly; pricingpower
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1 posted on 04/05/2006 2:04:06 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: steve-b
If you have a legit copy of a MS program that you bought, why can't you install it on another computer that you own.

Do you have to deinstall it first?
2 posted on 04/05/2006 2:08:06 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: ShadowAce

herewegoagain


3 posted on 04/05/2006 2:08:54 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: steve-b

just make your own system. all part can be bought on line


4 posted on 04/05/2006 2:09:05 PM PDT by camas
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To: steve-b

If this doesn't define a monopoly, I don't know what does.
Are monopolistic practices legal in UK? They're not here but when has anyone seen a PC for sale with anything but either
Microsoft operating system or Apple's? Don't know how they get away with it.


5 posted on 04/05/2006 2:09:39 PM PDT by SouthCarolinaKit
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To: steve-b
I might end up choosing MS Windows or the new one, but I would rather have the option to install it myself on a new computer. When your computer comes with so many things pre-installed, there is a lot of junk I do not want, and I am afraid to delete it for fear I WILL end up installing it myself. That wouldn't be that horrible, but getting everything else installed and working properly again would take a long time.

In a worst case scenario, I'm not sure I could install MS Windows so it works right or not and don't want to find out with everything else that is on my system.

Maybe they think we are too dumb to install it, but it's mostly to ensure they get their money.

6 posted on 04/05/2006 2:10:08 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Citizen Tom Paine

We have Office It is licensed for up to three computers.


7 posted on 04/05/2006 2:11:08 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy (I'm writing a post to a message board. I don't care if it's not grammatically perfect.)
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To: steve-b

What is this crap that Microsoft is foisting on the public? are they trying to force us to by PC's loaded with buggy,memory hogging software or what.

If people wish to buy a Microsoft operating system that should be up to them. They should not be coerced into buying it.

Maybe if Microsoft would make more memory efficient software that was also dependable they would have a ready market that people would not mind purchasing their products.


8 posted on 04/05/2006 2:12:11 PM PDT by puppypusher
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To: SouthCarolinaKit
If this doesn't define a monopoly, I don't know what does.

So vendors can't make requests of their customers? Not that I disagree that Microsoft is a company that exhibits predatory behavior, but this isn't evidence of a monopoly, for at least two reasons I can think of.
9 posted on 04/05/2006 2:12:36 PM PDT by Terpfen (72-25: The Democrats mounted a failibuster!)
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To: steve-b
My Company uses a few standard boxes.

With 25,000 machines, we have a licence for Windows, ect.

They allow those of us in the IT dept to use their licence for our personal machines, with the understanding that we all use our home PCs for work anyway.

So now they get two bites of the same piece of pie?

Man, what a racket.

Cheers,

knewshound

Brew Your Own
10 posted on 04/05/2006 2:13:11 PM PDT by knews_hound (When Blogs are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Blogs.)
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To: steve-b

In order to properly appreciate Microsoft's admonition, you have to read it with a heavy 'New York Mafioso' accent. Then it becomes much more compelling...


11 posted on 04/05/2006 2:14:40 PM PDT by blowfish
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To: steve-b

Back to their old habits, I see.


12 posted on 04/05/2006 2:15:22 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: steve-b
No problem. They will include a copy of DrDos (or whatever it's called now that it's been open sourced) with every PC.

Next subject.

I agree about buying parts. A little research and you can build yourself a much better PC then Dell ships for less. They use cheap components. Even if you buy Dell get your RAM elsewhere. They mark that up about 300%.

If you need a MS license there are plenty for sale on E-bay.

13 posted on 04/05/2006 2:15:27 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: Citizen Tom Paine
Do you have to deinstall it first?

I don't know the answer to that and recently installed Adobe CS2. You have to deactivate it before you can install it on a new computer, but they say you can install it like on a laptop you own and make backup copies. But you can't be using it on both computers at the same time. How would they know unless both are connected to the internet?

I'm not sure how they know unless it can write something onto the CD. The minute I boot up, I'm online, but I could disconnect from the internet to install. I wish I understood better how and why these things work.

It's got me worried because I don't know how to back it up, don't want to purchase Norton Ghost yet, and if my hd crashes without deactivating it, I could be in trouble convincing Adobe to let me install it on a new computer. Maybe it works the same with Windows now. They probably built in safeguards in some products because so many people were/are sharing software.

14 posted on 04/05/2006 2:15:53 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: steve-b
"We want to urge all system builders ? indeed, all Partners ? not to supply naked PCs. It is a risk to your customers and a risk to your business ? with specifically 5 percent fewer opportunities to market software and services," wrote Alexander.

The MicroSnott-ies must be liberals. They confuse opportunity with the desired outcome . Couldn't possibly be that someone dared make the choice they don't approve of. Affirmative action for Operating Systems!

15 posted on 04/05/2006 2:17:16 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
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To: steve-b

What bullcrap. Tigerdirect sells computers with no-OS. Ebay has tons of them. Even WalMart sells one. They used to sell a few. But you can buy one with Linux on it and do what you want with it. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=231791

You can buy nice bare bones systems on Ebay and Tiger Direct. Last time I bought a computer with an OS was quite a while ago


16 posted on 04/05/2006 2:17:35 PM PDT by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: steve-b
Most Operating Systems that come pre-installed are so loaded full of $#*! that even the fastest PCs get bogged down right out of the box when you first fire them up.

The last PC that I bought at a retail store was so bad; within 2 minutes of powering it up for the first time I had already rebooted with a Windows XP installation CD in the drive for a fresh install. All of the applications that they put on there almost amounts to spam as far as I'm concerned.

I say just build your own! newegg.com will do you twice as good for your money than HP/Compaq or Dell.
17 posted on 04/05/2006 2:18:01 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: camas
"just make your own system. all part can be bought on line"

I have not had a factory built computer since my C-64, haha
I have built all of my computers from the 8088 in 1991,
to the Pentium series.
I make changes and upgrades as I need.
18 posted on 04/05/2006 2:18:10 PM PDT by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava, Slovakia)
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To: Dinsdale
I agree about buying parts. A little research and you can build yourself a much better PC then Dell ships for less. They use cheap components. Even if you buy Dell get your RAM elsewhere. They mark that up about 300%.

We bought two Dells. They have some "Support" programs that are forever calling hone for who-knows-what reason. Support.exe is one, and on the support forums Dell refused to explain it. All computers since have been built here with a fresh OS.

Some are Red Hat, some are WinXP. Call me "Bi", I guess..haha.

19 posted on 04/05/2006 2:21:39 PM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: Gorzaloon

No BSD? You're missing out.


20 posted on 04/05/2006 2:24:18 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: Gorzaloon

Ya know you could just treat this like those pesky gun locks that firearms manufacturers are required to include...

Just toss Windows into the dumpster next to the trigger locks after you get your computer home and install what you like on them.


21 posted on 04/05/2006 2:26:13 PM PDT by noobiangod
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To: SouthCarolinaKit

With no way to force people to actually bundle the OS, there is no working monopoly. And I don't think Microsoft is capable of that.


22 posted on 04/05/2006 2:36:05 PM PDT by Gordongekko909 (I know. Let's cut his WHOLE BODY off.)
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To: noobiangod
Just toss Windows into the dumpster next to the trigger locks after you get your computer home and install what you like on them.

You routinely throw away something you just paid for? That you already own an unused copy of?

MS does not have the legal right to tax all new PCs. At least ebay the license.

23 posted on 04/05/2006 2:39:34 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: steve-b

Microsoft cant force companies to install an OS beforehand.


24 posted on 04/05/2006 2:56:44 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: SouthCarolinaKit
but when has anyone seen a PC for sale with anything but either Microsoft operating system or Apple's?

Anyone with the technical savy to deal with a non Apple/Microsoft OS will know how to buy a PC with an OS other than Apple/Microsoft or with no operating system.

If you are really interested in a PC running something other than Appple/Microsoft, try Walmart.

25 posted on 04/05/2006 3:06:16 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Is tractus pro pensio.)
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To: SouthCarolinaKit

monopolies are legal in the US.
Microsoft's trial was a 2 parter.
1st the judge had to detrmine if MS was a monopoly ( He did )
He then had to determine the anti-trust part - if MS used the monopoly to bully it's market ( he did...then the deals for settlement began)


26 posted on 04/05/2006 3:08:39 PM PDT by stylin19a (I never put my foot in my mouth...I shoot that sucker off long before it gets anywhere near my mouth)
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To: steve-b

If major PC vendors don't sell their desktops and laptops with Microsoft Windows OS, most likely it will end up to be installed with bootleg Microsoft Windows XP anyway. Not a lot of people know Linux and even Linux users still boot to Microsoft Windows XP as needed. Dell can sell you servers with OS. :-)


27 posted on 04/05/2006 3:12:02 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: Gorzaloon; Dinsdale

http://www.ihatedell.net

As a former Dell owner that literally put the remains of an XPS700T Dimension into an industrial shredder (and it felt SO good!), I can tell you that we can do MUCH better than Dell.

Never again, hear me Michael Dell? *NEVER AGAIN*


28 posted on 04/05/2006 3:12:50 PM PDT by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
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To: All

Opppps, I should say: Dell can sell you servers without OS.


29 posted on 04/05/2006 3:14:33 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: steve-b

I run my computers with the OS. Who needs the headeaches!


30 posted on 04/05/2006 3:15:40 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: SouthCarolinaKit
Microsoft operating system or Apple's? Don't know how they get away with it.

This why Microsoft has never attempted a take over of Apple, as long as they exist, Micro$oft is not a monopoly. ô¿ô¬

31 posted on 04/05/2006 3:37:33 PM PDT by itsahoot (Any country that does not control its borders, is not a country. Ronald Reagan)
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To: steve-b
"Microsoft launched an initiative called Keep IT Real, in which "feet on the street" investigators would visit technology vendors suspected of installing counterfeit software on PCs before selling them."

Cracking down on counterfeiters is "impudence"?

32 posted on 04/05/2006 3:51:45 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: knews_hound
So now they get two bites of the same piece of pie?

If your company can't get around this problem, you need some new management.

33 posted on 04/05/2006 3:56:26 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: steve-b

bump for later .... should see some interesting holy war splatters by then.


34 posted on 04/05/2006 4:06:31 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Every man must be tempted, sometimes,to hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.)
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To: dennisw

Why load an OS at all? Try ELive OS - run from CD.
Pretty nice Free Operating System and Utilities,
http://public.www.planetmirror.com/pub/elivelinux


35 posted on 04/05/2006 4:25:24 PM PDT by pgobrien (82d Abn Inf pings......)
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To: BenLurkin

No, assuming that every PC runs Windows is impudence. RTFA.


36 posted on 04/05/2006 4:43:22 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: steve-b

Read the article?

Where do you think I got the quote?


37 posted on 04/05/2006 4:46:53 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: steve-b
The FSF Europe is alarmed by the prospect that customers who request a base systems would risk a visit from Microsoft's investigators.

HTF did these nutcases leap to that conclusion?
38 posted on 04/05/2006 4:49:20 PM PDT by DemosCrash
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To: Doe Eyes

I meant for ME.

According to this, I can't buy a Dell without an OS for example.

Greed is the word.


39 posted on 04/05/2006 4:53:39 PM PDT by knews_hound (When Blogs are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Blogs.)
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To: BenLurkin
"Read" != "skim for quotes"

Now, we await your explanation of how installing a non-MS OS on a computer sold with no OS at all constitutes "piracy"....

40 posted on 04/05/2006 5:00:55 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: BenLurkin; steve-b
There are two issues...selling machines with counterfeit os's and selling machines with NO os's. steve-b's "impudence" remark addressed the latter, while you zeroed in on the former, and misapplied his remark.

Referee services available free of charge...

41 posted on 04/05/2006 5:05:51 PM PDT by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton)
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To: knews_hound
Greed is the word.

Pretend that people don't install bootleg (stolen) software on their new computers.

42 posted on 04/05/2006 5:05:56 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Doe Eyes
Pretend that people don't install bootleg (stolen) software on their new computers.

That's a bit like not allowing people to sell Sudafed because a few bad apples... oh wait... my commie state is actually stupid enough to think that way... bad analogy.

S/W pirates build their own PCs, steal their own PCs, or pull them out of dumpsters. Someone who pays for a brand new, brand name vendor is not going to quibble over $70. The only people who will buy OSless PCs are corporations and people doing so on principle. The former doesn't tend to intentionally pirate and the latter wouldn't be caught dead with Windows.

43 posted on 04/05/2006 7:52:41 PM PDT by impatient (A PC without Windows is like deer hunting without an accordion)
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To: steve-b
The FSF talking about a Microsoft "tax"? Funny, since those at the FSF like its founder Richard Stallman want a REAL software tax.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=fsf+%22software+tax%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t-332&x=wrt

44 posted on 04/06/2006 6:44:08 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: DemosCrash
HTF did these nutcases leap to that conclusion?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because it's happened before?

For the record, The Business Software Alliance was created by Microsoft.

They are the enforcment arm of Microsoft's thuggish behavior.

Microsoft sales drones routinely threaten BSA audits.

45 posted on 04/11/2006 4:15:29 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: Knitebane
No, completely different situations. Ernie Ball and Virgina Beach were contacted by the BSA to verify license compliance. The terms of the licenses allowed the BSA to perform audits. Read the EULA. The reason that Ball and Virgina Beach were fined is that they couldn't come up with licenses for all of the software that they had installed. In my opinion, there were probably whistleblowers at both sites that turned 'em in for a reward. It happens more often than you realize.

As for naked PCs, the BSA has no authority to conduct license compliance on machines that aren't shipped with licensed products. Period. End of story.
46 posted on 04/11/2006 2:53:21 PM PDT by DemosCrash
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To: Golden Eagle
What do you expect? They can't get enough people to pay for their overhyped crapware.
47 posted on 04/11/2006 2:55:08 PM PDT by DemosCrash
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To: impatient
's a bit like not allowing people to sell Sudafed because a few bad apples... oh wait... my commie state is actually stupid enough to think that way... bad analogy.

FYI, most states do allow the sale of Sudafed -- but they have specific limitations on the quantity of products that you can buy, in order to prevent losers from buying crates of the stuff to make meth.
48 posted on 04/11/2006 2:57:11 PM PDT by DemosCrash
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To: SouthCarolinaKit
Are monopolistic practices legal in UK?

The EU is pretty harsh about it. Microsoft is currently going through something with their antitrust department, but I don't believe the complaint involves behavior like this.

49 posted on 04/12/2006 5:46:41 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: DemosCrash
Read the EULA.

EULAs are the problem. They require you to submit to an inspection of ALL of your machines.

The reason that Ball and Virgina Beach were fined is that they couldn't come up with licenses for all of the software that they had installed.

Actually, they weren't fined. They settled rather than have their doors continue to be locked while the BSA performed months of audits.

As for naked PCs, the BSA has no authority to conduct license compliance on machines that aren't shipped with licensed products. Period. End of story.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Read your EULA. If you have a copy of Office, and Microsoft thinks you may have it installed on another machine, they have the right to inspect that machine no matter what OS shipped on it. You agree to this when you click your EULA.

50 posted on 04/13/2006 3:37:26 PM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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