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Evolution: If It Walks Like a Fish ...
Newsweek ^ | 17 April 2006 issue | Jerry Adler

Posted on 04/09/2006 4:52:29 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

click here to read article


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To: Enduring Freedom
Intelligent Design is not scientific heresy.

Correct. It is not "science" at all.
101 posted on 04/09/2006 12:51:12 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: bobdsmith

I was unaware that neanderthal DNA has been examined.


102 posted on 04/09/2006 12:54:18 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio
I was unaware that neanderthal DNA has been examined.

Neanderthal DNA sequencing

103 posted on 04/09/2006 1:08:16 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Confidence follows from consilience.)
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To: null and void
(Or are there occasionally mules capable of reproduction?)

Yes.

104 posted on 04/09/2006 1:33:08 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

KEWL!


105 posted on 04/09/2006 1:35:13 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: bobdsmith
Possible polyploidy example.
106 posted on 04/09/2006 1:40:57 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Dimensio
ID is so bad it isn't even heretical.
107 posted on 04/09/2006 1:43:01 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: null and void
Link found.
108 posted on 04/09/2006 1:44:13 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Your article reminds us that it is not the chromosome count that is important, but also the structure.

The original question was whether speciation by chromosome mutation had been observed. This is presumably more rare than simple changes in chromosome number.
109 posted on 04/09/2006 1:53:31 PM PDT by js1138 (~()):~)>)
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To: bobdsmith

DNA tests have been conducted using the bones of so-called neanderthals "as well as other fossels supposedly in the human evolutionary chain", but the DNA was found to be dissimilar to humans. At best, they were able to find a few similar protiens. However, since tens of thousands of different proteins exist in the human body alone, with enough testing eventually you'll find similar proteins among almost all creatures. The conclusion was at best, neandrathal could be a distant relative of humans, but humans are not descendants.


110 posted on 04/09/2006 1:59:20 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: knarf
[ All warfare against human life is a struggle of Good against Evil ... Evil being the initiator. They don't hate you ... they hate ME .. Jesus. ]

Short sweet and to the point..
Because that IS the problem...

111 posted on 04/09/2006 2:03:08 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: PatrickHenry

YEC INTREP


112 posted on 04/09/2006 2:04:06 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: js1138
What happens is that a mutation (usually neutral) occurs and then spreads widely in a population. Another mutation does the same. At some point, there are enough mutations that individuals with many mutations cannot interbreed with the original.

Perhaps the mutation of feline distemper into canine parvo virus is an example. The viruses attack different species, but I'm not sure that the whether one wants to consder them different species.

113 posted on 04/09/2006 2:16:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: I-ambush
Of course science doesn't address metaphysical questions! Do you want it to?
114 posted on 04/09/2006 2:38:32 PM PDT by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: Quark2005

Fascinating. Thank you for the information.


115 posted on 04/09/2006 3:13:46 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: ScottfromNJ

A [i]few[/i] similar proteins? More like the vast majority of proteins are similar. It doesn't matter whether they are direct ancestors of us. I did not descend from my cousins, but they are still very similar genetically.


116 posted on 04/09/2006 3:22:39 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: Dimensio

The figure I used is a guess


117 posted on 04/09/2006 3:24:58 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: bobdsmith

Regarding your remarks in your post #32, concerning chromosomes becoming fused or broken, and belief that some diseases are caused by these mutations...here is what little I know on this subject, coming from a personal experience and some little reading of scientific journals and papers...

My older son was diagnosed with APL leukemia in 1984, so thats really a long time ago, in terms of medical advancement in dealing with such...in any case, when my son was diagnosed, one of the subsequent tests done, was a genetic profile on my son...that profile showed two genetic abnormalites...there was a trisonomy-monosomy switch between chromosome #7 and #8, which change is seen in many people afflicted with the large general category of AML leukemias...there was also a complete switch in placement of the #15 and #17 chromosome, a complete translocation of these two chromosomes...its seen, that when a patient is diagnosed with a APL leukemia, this translocation is seen...

After my son obtain a good full remission, another genetic profile was done...both of his previous chromosomal abnormalites were no longer there, they were gone....I asked the doctor, did the chromosomal abnormality cause the disease or did the disease cause the chromosomal abnormality...he told me, that the doctors and researchers still did not have a final decision as to what caused what...it was still being studied...

When my son relapsed, another genetic profile was done and again, those two exact chromosomal abnormalites were found...

Now fast forward to present day...what I have read about APL leukemia and the translocation of chromosomes #15 and #17 is this...today, scientists believe that it is the chromosomal abnormality which definitely causes the disease...in fact, its the hallmark marker of the disease, and that, combined with a microscopic examination of the particular leukemic cells taken in a bone marrow aspiration, leads doctors to identify conclusively the APL subgroup, which belongs to the larger group of AML leukemias..And why would this be important?

Because in the past, as when my son was diagnosed with APL leukemia, the standard treatment for all subgroups of AML leukemia was the same...and it provided a very low cure rate for all sufferers of AML lekemia...about 20% cure rate...today, the particular subgroups of AML are still being treated with the same protocol...except for APL...The protocol for APL today, differs completely for the way other AMLs are treated..and with grand results...those with APL have a much higher cure rate(at least 50&), than the other subgroups of AML...

Not sure what any of this has to do with evolution, was just offering a little insight into your post about broken or fused chromosomes, and what is the result of such...


118 posted on 04/09/2006 3:25:08 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: fizziwig
Is it impossible for a supporter of Darwin's theory to make an argument without some dismissive ad hominem attack against the opposition

No. Because, as we have also been told, Darwinism comes from Satan

119 posted on 04/09/2006 4:00:36 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Red meat, we were meant to eat it - Meat and Livestock Australia)
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To: bobdsmith

When these tests of the various fossils in the supposed evolutionary chain were conducted, there was an expection that a gradual progression of complexity in the proteins of organisms as they progressed from simple to complex starting with ape and ending with the human fossil record would be shown, which would show genetic similarities between apes and humans. But this critical piece of evolutionary evidence never materialized. Only similar proteins were found, which is not unusual given the tens of thousands of proteins in the human body that exist, and the fact that similar proteins would be found in most creatures if enough testing was done.


120 posted on 04/09/2006 4:07:01 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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