Decadent world is in the grip of Satan, says Pope

The Daily Telegraph ^ | April 15, 2006 | Malcolm Moore

[starbase]

Well your "additions" to my post, that is, suggesting that my post was stating that extreme wealth disparities no longer exist and that I thought the Pope was only addressing the West, exhibit a hefty dose of poetic license!

I don't disagree with your description of the world, but seeing all those implications in my post was a minor act of divination!

Whenever someone leads with "you make it sound like", a little red debate flag pops up. One should address what is written, not what one can infer with creativity. After all, I could say that the way you post makes it sound like you beat animals and push orphans in the mud! I'm making a purely academic point here, you understand.

[John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?]

My tone of sell all and give to the poor?

I guess theses are pretty insightful words especially if one were to worship silver and gold.

[Almondjoy]

Socialism isn't inhertantly bad.. it's people that screw up.. just the same with capitalism.

If has humans we utilizing our God given potentional to farmer, doctor, lawyer, customer service, waitress, or CEO. And all of us applied our work ethic regardless of pay(something God calls on us to do)... then Socialism would be fine. It's because people work for money and will only take certain jobs because of their financial reward that makes Socialism fall apart.

You and I both know that Socialism is founded on ideals.. certain ideals that everyone is created equal and that we should use our talents for the benefit of all.

It is in our inhertant greedy nature that reduces Socialism to what we see in the world.

[Arthur McGowan]

There's nothing Leftist about the Pope's statement warning against avarice. By "Leftist" I mean COERCIVE. Unbridled greed IS a moral failing and a social evil. It doesn't follow from that warning that government should confiscate honestly- and lawfully-gained wealth.

[steve-b]

He deplored "the division of our world into belts of prosperity and belts of poverty".

See Matthew 25:14-30

[steve-b]

Did you see Channel 4 News reporting the Pope's attack on the genetic engineering of humans as an attack on science?

An across-the-board attack on the concept (as opposed to a legitimate attack on specific applications thereof) is an attack on science.

Unfortunately, Benedict XVI's comments (unless they got garbled along the way) are clearly an example of the former.

[steve-b]

So, people who are dissatisfied with their bodies are less likely to care whether they live or die.

What amazing revelation can possibly follow that? The fact that Benedict XVI is... [drum roll] CATHOLIC?

[ZULU]

???????????????????????

I don't think so. At least on an international scale.


The statement about some people starving while others live lives of luxury and wealth could have come right from Christ.

Its one thing for individuals to practise charity, which is what I think the Pope is stating, and another for a government to rape its citizens and use their tax dollars to do so.

If it were not for the Catholic Church and Ronald Reagan, the Evil Empire would still be there.

If it returns, its OUR fault for not carrying on the fight.

I like this Pope and I'm a Protestant.

[twippo]

"I wonder why almost all the "Catholic" countries have descended so far into socialism?"


Catholicism has no history of church/state separation. When you mix charity (a responsibility of the church) with the state, it's very easy to get into socialism.

[SaltyJoe]

One of the difficulties I have grasping (as well as others may have the same challenge) is to accept what God puts into my life. If He's made me short, hairy, and ugly, then I must Trust in Jesus that there's a babe in this world that likes me for how God made me.

Just look at Johnny Damon...



He's ugly, but there's a lady in his life in spite of his terrifying looks.

Maybe the Yankee's uniform helps?

[Joe 6-pack]

Great Graphic!!

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

I agree. Which I why I wrote some Freepers and not all Freepers. Rampant and unrestrained materialism is not (or at least should not) be part of conservative ideology.

I am against Hummers, for isntance, and other wasteful displays of wealth because they are conspicuous consumption meant to display status and convey reproductive potential through wastefulness.

This is (partly) what the Pope was talking about in terms of decadence. Wasteful consumption is the exact opposite of conservative.

[red irish]

For the first time today I understand greed. I had to get some info from my insurance company and found out my deductible had been raised to double the amount. Now that being said these same people who own this company paid thousands of dollars for the entryway floor into her house ,spent thousands of dollars for a car for their 16 old granddaughter, but yet went the cheap way for insurance for their employees.And this is the very same people who flaunt their diamonds and property and such. With the expense of insurance and now the higher deductible it gets harder and harder of even using the damn insurance,which is exactly what they want. Now I understand why people get down on the oil companies and Walmart. There is a moral responsibility to the very least help people who need medical services. Real greed has never been so obvious to me now.

[red irish]

That is exactly what I have found out today. These companies are making millions and billions and the working person is getting less and less and the health insurance is getting higher and higher. Since my husband lost his job 3 years ago we have had it so hard and the insurance is getting higher and higher but the owners live better and better and have a way of letting everyone know it.

[TXFireman]

ping

[AxelPaulsenJr]

In the grip of satan? Hildabeast allready been elected?

[Constantine XIII]

Accumulating wealth was "robbery" when it "prevented others from living"

What is there to disagree with? If you follow the rules of our system, gathering wealth does NOT prevent others from living. :)

[loveliberty2]

Thanks to NYer for the original version!

The Pope's words on poverty and wealth should not be allowed to be misused by those who would accumulate political power over all by buying votes with promises to use government's coercive power to take the earnings of some and transfer them to others. Redistribution of wealth is a tool of totalitarian power, not of liberty and opportunity for all.

The moral philosopher, Adam Smith, in 1776, published "An Inquiry Into The Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations," and, coincidentally, the American experiment in liberty since 1776 has proven that where the rule of law and the ideas of liberty prevail, individual citizens are more likely to prosper.

Tyranny and poverty, on the other hand, have prevailed in nation after nation where those ideas are ignored or denied.

[timm22]

He doesn't call on countries to do that either.

So would you say the Catholic Church does NOT see a role for the state in economic matters, beyond creating a necessary institutional framework? (such as enforcement of contracts, protection of property, establishing common weights and measures, etc).

I've always been under the impression that the Church advocates something like the social democracies of Europe, a system between free-market capitalism and total state-controlled socialism. I thought they respected the concept of private property, but saw state regulation to achieve social justice as legitimate, even if volutary methods were preferred.

[Almondjoy]

Sometimes issues are overlooked until they hit home. I'm sorry for your situation. We must remember that we cannot legislate morality. Don't wish bad or hope to legislate these people's behavior. Keep your focus on God and the great things he has already provided you and if you need help ask God for that help. If you continue to see and live the positive your life will improve with each and every passing minute.