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Writing on the wall for Iran [Even the UAE and China agree.]
Khaleej Times (United Arab Emirates) ^ | 17APR06 | Khaleej Times

Posted on 04/16/2006 11:44:32 PM PDT by familyop

IRAN is in the eye of the storm. Not even a week has passed since Seymour Hersh disclosed a secret US plan to attack Iran that includes a nuclear strike at its nuclear installations. And now there is this report about a mock Iran invasion exercise by the US and UK. Clearly, noose is tightening around Iran.

Which is very disturbing considering the disastrous ramifications of such a campaign for the Middle East and the world. Even as the region is battling the terrible effects of the conflict in Iraq, not to talk of the impact on global economy, this reckless talk of Iran invasion is most disconcerting.

But Iran cannot escape its own responsibility for this dangerous conflagration. The regime's lopsided priorities and incredibly irresponsible rhetoric, especially by President Ahmedinejad, haven't really won Iran many friends in the international community. What's the point of this persistent talk about wiping out Israel? What's the point of this absurd drama over nuclear enrichment? Clearly, Ahmedinejad is playing to the gallery at home. But this is depriving Iran of the vital support of the international community that is keen to see Iran's nuclear issue resolved peacefully.

By harping on the Holocaust, Israel and declaring Iran a member of the 'nuclear club', Iran's leaders are playing into the hands of the neocons and powerful Zionist lobby. Like red rag to a bull, Iran is daring its enemies to attack it. Is it any wonder then the talk of an imminent Iran attack is taken seriously by the world?

The world community respects Iran's right to defend itself and protect its sense of self-respect. However, Iran should do so in the best possible ways, not by joining the nuclear club. Without getting into the debate if Iran is indeed working towards acquiring nukes, we must point out that military power is no guarantee to power or political survival. Look at what happened to Soviet Union. It had a huge pile of nukes and state-of-the-art weapons to match those of the US. But they couldn't save it from breaking up after the Afghan adventure which led to a terrible internal turmoil. On the other hand, Japan and Germany, the big players of the WWII, do not have any WMD. Yet they are considered more powerful than Russia because they have economic muscle. Iran needs to learn from these examples. Instead of running after the nuclear mirage, the Islamic republic should pay attention to the real and more immediate problems of its people, who are the real power of a nation. Real economic progress, not military muscle, can enhance Iran's profile in the comity of nations.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: arab; china; emirates; intensification; iran; nuclear; on; program; terror; threats; uae; uaeourfriends; united; war; weapons
Even the Chinese are now "concerned" and "worried" about Iran's actions and rhetoric. Action is a go, folks.

Chinese official holds nuclear talks with Iran - report
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/04/16/afx2672672.html

1 posted on 04/16/2006 11:44:34 PM PDT by familyop
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To: familyop

Isn't it funny how liberals will, under no circumstances, ever support us building more nuclear power plants here, yet fully support Iran doing so, even though their country is literally swimming in oil.


2 posted on 04/16/2006 11:50:12 PM PDT by frankiep
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To: frankiep

Good point...


3 posted on 04/16/2006 11:58:32 PM PDT by babygene
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To: familyop
"Instead of running after the nuclear mirage, the Islamic republic should pay attention to the real and more immediate problems of its people, who are the real power of a nation. Real economic progress, not military muscle, can enhance Iran's profile in the comity of nations."

Assuming you know what their goals are.

4 posted on 04/17/2006 12:16:12 AM PDT by mitch5501 (Let's not beat about the bush)
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To: familyop
But Iran cannot escape its own responsibility for this dangerous conflagration. The regime's lopsided priorities and incredibly irresponsible rhetoric, especially by President Ahmedinejad, haven't really won Iran many friends in the international community. What's the point of this persistent talk about wiping out Israel?

Like red rag to a bull, Iran is daring its enemies to attack it. Is it any wonder then the talk of an imminent Iran attack is taken seriously by the world?

A fool's lips bring him strife,
and his mouth invites a beating.
Proverbs 18:6 (New International Version)

Fools get into constant quarrels;
they are asking for a beating.
Proverbs 18:6 (New Living Translation)

A fool's lips enter into contention,
and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Proverbs 18:6 (King James Version)

5 posted on 04/17/2006 12:25:16 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: familyop
Like red rag to a bull, Iran is daring its enemies to attack it.

This is somewhat how Saddam was acting in his heyday.

6 posted on 04/17/2006 1:07:02 AM PDT by Ruth A. (we might as well fight in the first ditch as the last)
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To: familyop
Which is very disturbing considering the disastrous ramifications of such a campaign for the Middle East and the world.

Yeh ...... and what about those 40,000 suicide recruits they have ready to operate.

My, "they blow up so fast".

7 posted on 04/17/2006 1:39:01 AM PDT by beyond the sea (Oh, for the days when "disrespect" was just a noun.)
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To: familyop
Like red rag to a bull, Iran is daring its enemies to attack it.

Nutball Iranian leader wants to begin the chain reaction to his interpretation of Armegeddon.

8 posted on 04/17/2006 1:40:41 AM PDT by beyond the sea (Oh, for the days when "disrespect" was just a noun.)
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To: beyond the sea

His "Armegeddon" is going to be localized...


9 posted on 04/17/2006 2:35:47 AM PDT by DB ()
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To: DB

lol ............. here's hoping.


10 posted on 04/17/2006 2:52:14 AM PDT by beyond the sea (Oh, for the days when "disrespect" was just a noun.)
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To: familyop

I don't think anyone is talking about an invasion of Iran, no more than Israel had to invade Iraq to take out it's nuke facilities in the 80's.

It would be a strike. I imagine the operation would include a way to verify that the mission had been accomplished.


11 posted on 04/17/2006 3:04:41 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: frankiep
Isn't it funny how liberals will, under no circumstances, ever support us building more nuclear power plants here

Here's one who may have come to his senses...link

12 posted on 04/17/2006 3:27:24 AM PDT by kanawa
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To: familyop
In the many threads regarding Iran this past week, what I have found more disturbing is what one poster (who I cannot recall, but FBUT, "Freep Be Upon Them", lol) suggested, which is that Iran ALREADY has nuclear warheads, possibly a sizable number, obtained from the old Soviet Union's arsenal, inspected, updated and maintenanced by Russians (who everyone knows are all over Iran with their various programs of "assistance"), and what is taking place before our eyes is a not-so-skillful charade, pushing the idea that Iran has developed nuclear energy and nuclear weapons all on it's own, when in fact it has obtained everything it has from the Russians (with possible additional help from sources like Red China and North Korea).

Such a gambit is a variation on what Khrushchev tried to pull in Cuba in '62, with the difference being that today, Russia is operating in stealth mode, pulling the strings, manipulating the puppets (like Amadjihad, the nutbar Iranian president), and mostly keeping their public image clean and above reproach (as they see it) The goal? To alter the balance of power in the Middle East, as Israel currently holds all the high cards (meaning nuclear weapons capability).

If the Iranians ever launch a nuke at Israel, or at U.S. forces, or even try that whole EMP deal with a nuke launched over the U.S. mainland (from an offshore freighter or tanker), it is likely that whatever device is detonated will NOT be of Iranian origin, but Russian.

Which poses the question, "what in Hell do we do about it?"

Just some musings as the day begins. Now I need more coffee.
13 posted on 04/17/2006 4:11:50 AM PDT by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
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To: familyop

This seems to have been written by some hand wringing left wing nut case. The whole article is an apology for the blustering US, UK and Zionists. If Iran would just keep quiet for a while, those three loose cannons would have no excuse to attack. Afterall, life if good for freedom and democracy in Iran and deep down, they really want to be a good neighbor, are not already killing Americans in Iraq and generally destablizing the region. America is always looking for an excuse to attack someone, and poor Iran is falling into that trap even as we speak.

Gag me.


14 posted on 04/17/2006 4:20:49 AM PDT by armydawg1 (" America must win this war..." PVT Martin Treptow, KIA, WW1)
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To: mkjessup

Iran ALREADY has nuclear warheads?

I'll take that bet! It doesn't take 'Rocket science'.


15 posted on 04/17/2006 5:11:07 AM PDT by wolfcreek
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To: mkjessup; Don Joe; Billthedrill

Think that was Don Joe to Billthedrill, that piece. Lemme look.


16 posted on 04/17/2006 8:55:04 AM PDT by txhurl
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To: DB
His "Armegeddon" is going to be localized...

Nice one..

17 posted on 04/18/2006 3:54:24 PM PDT by Michael Barnes
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To: xzins

Just take out all the nuke and military sites, and have a follow-up strike ready against anything larger than a Jeep that goes to inspect any of the damage.


18 posted on 04/18/2006 4:00:27 PM PDT by thoughtomator (That new ring around Uranus is courtesy of the IRS)
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To: txflake; mkjessup; Billthedrill
Is this what you're looking for?

Iran President Again Lashes Out at Israel, says it is heading towards annihilation [Post 87]

Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, I was tied up debunking an infiltrator from an outfit that is trying to merge the USA and various other countries. Not surprisingly, he is extremely PRO-Mexican invasion, and, when cornered. bites like a trapped rat. (I was accused of "stalking" him because I clicked on a link to his website that someone provided! He then cascaded the libel by imploring, "Do take care to make sure that your stalking remains limited to the electronic realm.")

Nerve, eh? But that was just the tip of the iceberg. For the full treatment, check out A Sad State When Thought About(FR Opinion Poll) starting with posts 150 and 151.

19 posted on 04/19/2006 12:27:11 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: mkjessup
If the Iranians ever launch a nuke at Israel, or at U.S. forces, or even try that whole EMP deal with a nuke launched over the U.S. mainland (from an offshore freighter or tanker), it is likely that whatever device is detonated will NOT be of Iranian origin, but Russian.

Which poses the question, "what in Hell do we do about it?"

Not much we can do about it if that happens, and happens bad. IF our sub commanders are no longer constrained by Slick's treasonous "Permissive Action Link" monstrosity, they'll be able to retaliate after the fact. (Not that it'll do us much good at that point). Otherwise, they're just inert boats, with working motors -- different from most other boats, which will be inert, without motors. (Being underwater will block EMP.)

For some odd reason, Slick wanted to make sure that we were unable to fire a retaliatory volley after receiving a first strike -- and, he wanted to make sure our adversaries were aware that if they did give us a good bloody first strike, we would be unable to retaliate.

So, he activated the Permissive Action Link system, which prevented Naval vessels from firing their nukes on their own. They needed to have a live, active link to the mainland. If "the mainland" was reeling under a morass of smoke, fire, and EMP'd electronics, then, alas, there'd be NO link to the mainland, and our ships (our subs, particularly), would be armed to the teeth, but, with a "Safety catch" that could NOT be released.

This of course telegraphed a message to the rest of the world -- "The United States of America has decided to stand down. Our nuclear deterrent is no more. We are now in a position in which, if we receive a 'first strike', we will be unable to retailiate. Thus, since we all know that WE will not launch a first strike, in a position of absolute vulnerability."

To make sure there was NO mistaking his intention, he also inked a PDD to the effect that our nuclear war policy was to absorb a first strike without retaliating -- even if we could!

Gee, I have NO idea why on earth he would have come up with that dual-pronged policy that resulted in us having NO nuclear deterrent. It's almost as if he was in the pay of an adversary, working to set us up for destruction.

But I digress.

The big question is, has Bush rescinded Slick's "PAL" system? If not, we're still screwed. If he has unhooked it, then I'm unaware of it. (Not saying he hasn't, just that I don't know if he has.)

But, I'm still digressing. (I'll often do that when confronted with the unthinkable.)

Your question was "what in Hell do we do about it?"

My answer -- apart from the part addressed above, entirely contingent on the state of the PAL system (and, with "we" defined as the American military establishment), the answer is "we grit our teeth and take it. We do what other people have done in other times when their way of life was disrupted beyond recognition."

Actually, that's a bit of an optimistic reply. Overly optimistic, that is. The "other peoples" who have endured the horrors of war, of conquest, of defeat, and of being made into subjects of cruel conquerors -- had one big advantage over us.

Unlike us, they were in most cases a spartan lot, rugged, tough, self-sufficient, even in the best of times.

They didn't have an "entertainment jones"; they didn't depend on public utilities for food, water, heat (for cooking), heat (for surviving), garbage pickup, mail delivery, entertainment pipelining, Internet connectivity, and so forth.

We are soft. Soft beyond belief! Hardly any of us would last even part of a day if dropped into "one of those really bad eras".

Worse, very large parts of the rest of the world are not soft.

Their children do not park in front of the hypno-toob, while packing their mouths with artificially everything'd glop. They work; they study; they learn; and, they endure. Endure what? Hardship, and lots of it, on a daily basis.

A "battle" between "The American People" and "the invaders" would look like a match between the Pillsbury Dough Boy and some gang of lunatics with chainsaws, sledgehammers, hobnail boots, and really bad attitudes.

What are we gonna do, giggle a lot, smile, and tell 'em we're not co bad after all? Rodney King, please pick up the crispy gray phone in the smoking crater...

So, what do we do?

After you've defined yourself down to whatever part of "we" is applicable, you'll need to answer that for yourself.

For me, I hope to be able to keep my head down, grow my garden, raise some chickens, and keep my family alive -- alive and OUT of "the camps". (There are always "refugee camps". Doesn't matter if it's "the enemy" that sets 'em up, or your own government "trying to help" (don't you LOVE mandatory "help"?), there are ALWAYS refugee camps.)

They even had 'em after Katrina.

People were relocated halfway across the country, families were torn apart, people were put on planes, and NOT allowed to know where the plane was going until AFTER it was airborne!

They did NOT want families knowing where their members were being shipped.

Now, scoff if you want, yap about "tinfoil" if it makes you feel better, I don't care. But I am convinced that the government took full advantage of the opportunity provided by Katrina.

"Opportunity"?

Yup, you got it.

Katrina was the perfect "lab" -- an ideal "exercise". Unlike the "disaster drills" they held yearly -- at great expense -- this was real -- and not only are "things" different during a REAL disaster, but, people behave differently, because they KNOW it's for real.

A bunch of students and secretaries rolling on the ground, coated in ketchup, waiting for the bogus "bomb" to go off in the already-upside-down junked truck in the vacant lot, to mark the beginning of "the exercize"... this farce was repeated annually, with slight variation.

Katrina gave them the real deal -- and they made real use of it.

There were all sorts of opportunities for research, experimentation, and observation.

Stick some people into an overcrowded facility, and observed how they drift toward "Lord of the Flies" model while waiting for promised supplies that never come (supplies that were in fact withheld, a few hundred yards from the facility!).

Find out how other people react to being offered the promise of nice, clean, "campground" facilities -- and then, rushed off to undisclosed locations, prohibited to inform anyone else, denied contact with the outside world, held virtual prisoner, in total dependency on their "helpers", as they sat in "beautiful, clean, campgraound facilities" -- not knowing even what State they were in.

Then, the "heavy duty" experiments -- take the inner city gangbanger "culture" members, shuffle them up, and then redistribute them, ten thousand at a crack, to different states at random. Convince the states that they'd be "doing humanitarian work to help out victims of the worst storm in history, blah blah blah" -- and then send them thousands of shiftless, worthless, good-for-nothing criminals.

Observe how they "interact". Watch what happens to local crime stats. See what happens to local "community cohesivity."

I could go on, and on, and on, but you get the idea. Katrina provided the opportunity of a lifetime for someone trying to study the aftereffects of nuclear war.

Looking at it clinically, they would have been utter fools to NOT have made use of the opportunity.

Now, as to what their conclusions determined... hahahahahah! They are never even going to acknowledge the expermients/studies, let alone disclose the results!

The only way you'll even come close to finding out what they learned, will be when you see them in action after a real catastrophe. And, although we don't know much, I think one thing that's "not rocket science" is that any "help" we get will be "symbolic", intended mainly to keep us out of the streets, so that "our leaders" will have open lanes for their own exit.

No way oh earth will there by any kind of "mass evacuations" or anything like it. If the fan mates with the toilet, we're all on our own, unless we're VERY closely related to some VERY "important" persons.

Ugly, brutal, and true. Sorry 'bout that. (Click on my name and read "The Night of the Weak Knees" if any of this sounds far-fetched to you -- then, take it up with Christopher Hitchens.)

If I was in the advice-giving business, best advice I could give would be "go back in time". Unfortunately that ain't possible. We're all trapped in a one-way time machine.

So, next best option would be to try NOT to live in, or near a city. If you're "megalopolis-located" then "not near a city" may be a daunting prospect -- if not a downright daunting concept!

Next idea would be to live in a region that 1) was sufficiently temperate so as to allow you to raise crops without too much grief, and, 2) (it gets tricky here) an area without very many criminal aliens.

You make it past your first year -- alive -- and it gets easier after that. And guess what? You can raise enough crops to feed your family on an eighth of an acre or less. (that's 1/8th of AN acre, NOT "8 acres"!)

Do some web research on intensive gardening. It can be done. You can even do wonders with a few mason jars and sprouting beans inside. Those humble sprouts will be as good as "real greens" in the nutrient department. Better, actually. Again, research, research, research. Google is your friend -- in this regard, at least.

Well, it's late, I'm tired, and I guess that's all the inspiring, feel-good, optimistic stuff I've got for one night. "Always look on the bright side of life!" :)

(OK, OK, I do not buy into the Monty Python "theology", but there's a certain cynical charm to that ditty, sort of a... well, see for yourself. Remember, when life goes ass over elbows, and the bridge of your nose lands with a sharp crack on Murphey (the Law)'s knee -- as he says, "Oh, sorry, was I in your way?" -- moving aside, to drop you square on your face... well, get the picture? :)

Point being, you're gonna need a sense of humor to get through things if they go major ugly on ya.

In closing, I hope this short note was not too brief for you.

<g,d&r>

G'nite!

20 posted on 04/19/2006 2:15:22 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
For some odd reason, Slick wanted to make sure that we were unable to fire a retaliatory volley after receiving a first strike -- and, he wanted to make sure our adversaries were aware that if they did give us a good bloody first strike, we would be unable to retaliate
And I thot "there is no difference between the Pubs and the Dems", according to the likes of M. Savage and his many defenders here on FR. Which is why we cannot give the Dems the Congress this Nov., nor can we let them have the WH in '08. That would be a disaster on the order of--another ibn Qarter or another ibn Qalinton administration! No thanx. I would take even a McCainiac over the likes of anyone like them.
21 posted on 04/19/2006 10:41:52 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (evolution has both deified and degraded humanity)
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