Orson Scott Card: American Soldiers and How We Use Them

RhinoTimes ^ | April 20, 2006 | Orson Scott Card

[Tolik]

Combined PING to two ping lists

Nailed It! Moral Clarity BUMP ! This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for the perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author all 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of the good stuff that is worthy of attention. You can see the list of articles I pinged to lately  on  my page. You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about). Besides this one, I keep 2 separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson and Orson Scott Card.

Orson Scott Card - PING  [please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Orson Scott Card political articles] This article will be posted permanently (eventually) on his The Ornery American website http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/index.html Links: his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-orsonscottcard/browse  and archived here (it is a must go place for all new to OSC political writing): http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/index.html His fresh articles appear in the Rhinoceros Times, Greensboro, NC: http://www.rhinotimes.com/greensboro/  (before being posted permanently on his The Ornery American website). Read his books/movies/and everything reviews: http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/  His "About" page: http://www.hatrack.com/osc/about.shtml

 

 

[nuke rocketeer]

Whoooof! Excellent editorial by Card. Too bad it won't get much play in the print media.

[Darkwolf377]

This is possibly the best article I've ever read on FR.

[Stonewall Jackson]

Boy, did Card nail it with this one.

This is one of the most precise and accurate articles about the anti-war Establishment that I have ever read.

[ConservativeTerrapin]

Enders Game. Next to the Holy Bible, the best book ever!

[Pukin Dog]

It is a good article, but not great. A lot of sloganeering going on like this:

Here’s the truth: Torture, per se, doesn’t work. When you inflict enough pain, most people say whatever they need to say in order to make it stop, while those strong enough to resist it die without telling anything true.

First, we need to stop telling the lie that torture doesn't work, because it does, and it works very well. If it didn't, it would not be used. Second, the person has not yet been born who is strong enough to resist torture. If you know the truth, there are certain things that can be done to your body to make you tell it, and tell it quickly. That is a fact. Torture is something to fear and avoid, but certainly not because it doesn't work. I would love the opportunity to show one of these "torture doesn't work" crowd how in five minutes with a trained operator, they would be wishing death before a second round of what they might experience.

[RadioAstronomer]

Very well written!

[Ragtop]

Can you get me on the Ping List? This article was brlliant. Logical and honest. It made complete sense. We need more Orson Scott Cards in the world and less Dan Browns.

[Tolik]

I generally agree with on this one more than with OSC. But for the sake of argument, what should be said is that the problem is not that you'd get too little info from the subject, but too much. And when you can't verify it, too much info can be as bad. How to tell where is the truth and where is simple desire for you to stop the pain? What if there are multiple layers of the truth?

It may be that with our society aversion to torture, we simply don't have specialists good enough to tell.

[Tolik]

Sure, which one - only the OSC or the general ping list as well?

[Thumbellina]

Thanks for posting this. I sent this to my hubby at PACOM to send out to all his troops.

[Pukin Dog]

And when you can't verify it, too much info can be as bad. How to tell where is the truth and where is simple desire for you to stop the pain?

The question assumes that interrogators are stupid. Anyone undergoing torture is made well aware that should their information prove inaccurate, that another attempt will be made to get the truth. Why lie, if it only means you will be going through it again? Generally, what information is gained, proves true.

[Ragtop]

Both. Thanks!

[GSWarrior]

I am about ready to start reading my first Card novel...Pastwatch, the Redemption of Christopher Columbus.

Is it a worthwhile read?

[roaddog727]

Bumperoo!

[Tolik]

Not stupid, but simply short on time, like in ticking bomb situation. And again, not stupid, but inexperienced.

[Havok]

And to think, Orson used to be such a liberal.
He is one of my favorite authors again

[Havok]

"I am about ready to start reading my first Card novel...Pastwatch, the Redemption of Christopher Columbus.

Is it a worthwhile read?"


Like the guy above said. Ender's Game.
Read that first. All of the Ender books are fantastic.

[Pukin Dog]

It does not take a lot of time to get information from someone being tortured. That is a Hollywood invention. The portrait of someone holding out, enduring pain, all sweaty and suffering, that aint true. There are levels of pain that most people never experience. Childbirth and passing kidney stones are a walk in the park compared to some forms of pain that can be instantly inflicted on someone. There are forms of pain where a person would wish for death before suffering it again.