Why Are We Baiting Putin?

The Post Chronicle ^ | 5/9/06 | Patrick J. Buchanan

[RepublicNewbie]

"(N)o legitimate interest is served when oil and gas become tools of intimidation or blackmail, either by supply management or attempt to monopolize transportation," thundered Vice President Cheney to the international pro-democracy conference in Vilnius, Lithuania.

"(N)o one can justify actions that undermine the territorial integrity of a neighbor, or interfere with democratic movements."

Cheney's remarks were directed straight at the Kremlin and President Vladimir Putin, who is to host the G-8 Conference in July.

Cheering Cheney on is John McCain, front-runner for the GOP nomination, who has urged President Bush to snub Putin by boycotting the G-8 summit. What the GOP is thus offering the nation right now is seven more years of in-your-face bellicosity in foreign policy.

What does McCain think we would accomplish -- other than a new parading of our moral superiority -- by so public an insult to Putin and Russia as a Bush boycott of the St. Petersburg summit? Do we not have enough trouble in this world, do we not have enough people hating us and Bush that we have to get into Putin's face and antagonize the largest nation on earth and a co-equal nuclear power? What is the purpose of this confrontation diplomacy? What does it accomplish?

[RusIvan]

That stunt Putin pulled when he turned of the gas sent a shock round the world.==

He did it to compel Ukraine to pay the market price. Why Russia should subcidize Ukraine?

[RusIvan]

If you really want to take over all of Eastern europe, shut the gas off in like, October.. ==

Accually estern Europe got used to subcidize from Russia. Can you imagine that Russia gave Ukraine alone about $4 blns annually as cheap low market price gas?
So Russia said it is enough and asked them to pay the market price. Ukraine refused. SO it was needed brief shut up just to bring them to senses.
I think it is fair. Now Russia saves those $4 blns annually.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Russia makes money off of communist enslavement and theft.

[CBart95]

Congratulations Guys! (Well, all, save for Russian who is so biased as to be blithering.)

Your clear eyed appraisal of our dubious "ally" is wonderfully right on the money. Those bastards are our direct enemy willfully financing and sponsoring calumny on a worldwide basis.

And most everyone here knows it.

All of us fully expect them to be on the enemy side when Iran must be dealt with. And from all that is developing, the UN will be "without a chair" when the music stops along with Russia and China and the rest of the Arab world.

[mother22wife21]

Please note tagline. Moral Squalor is an incredible description of where we are today.
I hope you don't mind that I quoted you. :D

[RusIvan]

Russia makes money off of communist enslavement and theft.==

??? I really don't understand what you mean???

Russia sells her merchandise and naturally wants to get fair price. Long ago Russia was compelled by communists to give it almost for free.

Even after 1991 Russia squandered enough resources to feed so called "brother" nations. $3-4 blns annully for only one Ukraine. Can you beleiv such generocity?!

But russian generocity wasn't appriciated. So let them buy today on open markets in market price. I think it is fair.

[spanalot]

"Russia sells her merchandise and naturally wants to get fair price"

No -
Russia has a monopoly at the source and the enduser.

They buy gas for $25, offer Ukraine $2 to transport it (or they shut it off) and then they demand $250. from the Germans (that they bribe).

[spanalot]

"He did it to compel Ukraine to pay the market price. Why Russia should subcidize Ukraine?"

BS - Ukraine had a contract to buy from Russia at $20 and it was good for another 2 years, except the Ukrainians refused to vote for Putin's lackey.

Ukraine also had a contract to buy gas from Turkmanistan where Russia gets its gas - also for $25.

That's when Putie shut off the valve.

[RusIvan]

BS - Ukraine had a contract to buy from Russia at $20 and it was good for another 2 years, except the Ukrainians refused to vote for Putin's lackey.

Ukraine also had a contract to buy gas from Turkmanistan where Russia gets its gas - also for $25.

That's when Putie shut off the valve. ==

Fairy tales. No proves to substanciate your claims.

[Timedrifter]

Buchanan is correct here. Our current policy vis a vis Russia makes no long term sense. Most Freepers seem unaware that conservative monarchist Russia was one of Americas best friends for the entire 19th century. Putin has made mistakes of course, but all and all he has been a good leader for Russia and seems to have their support. Telling Russians they were better off under the drunk Yeltsin with a collapsing economy and chaos has to leave the average Russian questioning the motives of the West, and I am scratching my head along with them. I was in Russia during those days and have visited once again recently and the progress is remarkable. Many big problems remain but the general direction is one we should welcome.

Paleoconservatives like Buchanan and myself were against communist USSR, but not traditional Russian conservatism. The expansion of Nato and the constant nitpicking are slowly pushing Russia into the hands of China and other rogue states. Putin is a modern day Stolypin, a traditional Russian conservative which does have authoritarian elements. Confusing that with Stalinist communism and messianic world domination is intellectually dishonest and an insult to the millions of REAL victims.

[RusIvan]

Putin is a modern day Stolypin, a traditional Russian conservative which does have authoritarian elements. ==

I agree completely. I hope that Cheney and Taigunner Joe here on FR will understand that.
They do not understand one more thing. Russia becomes stronger each year. Her economy alredy surpassed USSR' in its best.

To pick up on such country with stupid pretensions like Cheney did is simply foolishness. I hope Cheney will b egone after 20088 and we will forget him.

[spanalot]

""That's when Putie shut off the valve. == ""

"Fairy tales. No proves to substanciate your claims."

Do you seriously think that Russia is not a bloodsucking parasite that regularly commits economic warfare on its neighbors to prop up its own inefficiencies?

---

"In 1994, Russia's refusal to export Turkmen gas to hard currency markets and mounting debts of its major customers in the former USSR for gas deliveries contributed to a sharp fall in industrial production and caused the budget to shift from a surplus to a slight deficit... Turkmenistan is working hard to open new gas export channels through Iran and Turkey to Europe, but these will take many years to realize. In 1998-99, Turkmenistan faced revenue shortfalls due to the continued lack of adequate export routes for natural gas and obligations on extensive short-term external debt.

[RusIvan]

Do you seriously think that Russia is not a bloodsucking parasite that regularly commits economic warfare on its neighbors to prop up its own inefficiencies? ==

If you mean that Russia uses her geographical position and put her extras to the prices for energy? Yes she does. And she has full right to do so.

If you know that the self-cost of pumping of Saudi Arabia oil is about $7-10 but they sell it at $70 now. SO what? They are parasites too?

But the industrial countries same parasites when they sells thier own product with huge extra in prices.

It would be very stupid of Russia doesn't use her positions to her advantages and make money of it.

I know that those eastern europians got used to cheap energy Russia supplied under Soviet Union dictate. No more. Prepare to reality. Everyone will pay the markey price for russian energy or valve off..

If someone doesn't like it then should go buy from Norwey or Saudi Arabia for example. I'm sure they will sell cheaper then Russia:)./joke

[TChris]

[Russia]...the largest nation on earth and a co-equal nuclear power?

Pat, what exactly have you been smoking?

[RusIvan]

Spanalot relax today and listen good russian radio:). Today is the celebration of Victory Day!

http://radio.ext.ru/playlist/radio.m3u?station=classic&stream=128

[steve-b]

Maybe Russia's newfound support for HAMAS is what Pat is talking about.

Russian support for a fellow enemy of the Jooooos is probably why Pat is upset with the administration for not bending over and grabbing ankles for Putin.

[steve-b]

Russia needs to make money and feed her industry.

Well, then, they need to learn to play ball before we decide to really start turning the screws....

[Zack Nguyen]

Because, Pat, Putin is compromising the Russia's democratic reforms and arming Iran. That's why we criticize him. Is it so hard for him to understand?

[spanalot]

"Spanalot relax today and listen good russian radio:). Today is the celebration of Victory Day! "

Tell that to the 50 million that were killed by Communists after they "won".

[ClaireSolt]

He may have been right about the goal, but the means showed that he is a cold-hearted, autocratic, irresponsible despot. That is all. You may not like hearing that, but everyone in Europe was in jeopardy and they saw I, as did I. Why do you think he pulled back so quick? He got a call from every leader in the G8, and then some telling him that.