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Mark Goldblatt on Iraq: Containment & Context (answers General Anthony Zinni's recent spewage)
National Review Online ^ | May 15, 2006 | Mark Goldblatt

Posted on 05/15/2006 12:43:59 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy

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To: okiedog
"....its their arrogant denunciations of patriots like General Zinny who disagree."

What's this we hear about the "patriot" Zinni getting warnings to Al Queda about the impending attack on their Afghanistan training camp back in 1993?

Did it happen or did it not?

21 posted on 05/15/2006 2:45:17 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: driftless

If this were true, Gen. Zinni would be wrong and the neo-cons calumny of a patriotic American, a former member of the Armed Srvices and General Officer of the same, understandable -- but still unjustified. It is not true, however, making even more deplorable the insults he has endured from the kids over at NOR and the kids right here on Free Republic.


22 posted on 05/15/2006 2:45:27 PM PDT by okiedog
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To: cinives

Prosecutor Fitzgerald has a few names for you, but I digress from my original point.


23 posted on 05/15/2006 2:53:28 PM PDT by okiedog
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To: NutCrackerBoy
The article leaves out an important point. The status quo was untenable. Thanks to oil-for-food money being spread around, there was no support for maintaining sanctions except for America and Britain. The Security Council was months away from lifting sanctions and inspectors, which would have left Saddam free to go back into production of WMD's and resurrect his nuclear program, free from interference.
24 posted on 05/15/2006 3:05:01 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: okiedog
General Zinni apparently checked his honor at the door somewhere.

From Foxnews:

Former Clinton CENTCOM commander, Anthony Zinni — the most prominent of the retired generals attacking Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld — now says that, in the run-up to the war in Iraq, "What bothered me ... [was that] I was hearing a depiction of the intelligence that didn't fit what I knew. There was no solid proof, that I ever saw, that Saddam had WMD."

But in early 2000, Zinni told Congress "Iraq remains the most significant near-term threat to U.S. interests in the Arabian Gulf region," adding, "Iraq probably is continuing clandestine nuclear research, [and] retains stocks of chemical and biological munitions ... Even if Baghdad reversed its course and surrendered all WMD capabilities, it retains scientific, technical, and industrial infrastructure to replace agents and munitions within weeks or months."

Also, equating Israel and Iraq is absurd. Israel is a democracy where elected leaders are held responsible by the People,They get tossed out year-in and year-out. Its people are free and prosper.

Iraq was brutal dictatorship modeled after Soviet Russia. Its people suffered most dreadfully. There was no freedom of speech - in fact the exact opposite flourished. Speaking against Saddam was often a death sentence. Iraq's natural resources were wasted. Its educated, intelligent people were squashed by a regime as oppressive as any on Earth.

Israel didn't invade neighboring countries, Saddam did twice. Israel didn't dump chemical weapons on their enemies but Iraq did. They didn't commit genocide within their borders, but Iraq did. Israel doesn't need to be fixed, but Iraq did.

25 posted on 05/15/2006 3:08:20 PM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: Dilbert56
Your history of Iraq is true as to Saddam. He was a vicious dictator. The original post indicated that disregard for UN resolutions are a universal basis for attacking a sovereign country. I used Israel as an example to show the absurdity of this argument. I could have used Cuba, Libya, or several other countries. There is a duplicity in these absurd appeals to U.N. resolutions as a basis for war when the security council does not authorize it. Israel is a good example because there are so man that they disregard with justification. It is also silly to attack honorable men like Gen. Zinni and refer to their words and actions as "sewage" or "congealed mucous" as the kid over at National Review does in his article. The folks in Iraq want us out. To keep defending the war on the basis of the Iraqi interest is not persuasive. They don't want us there, if they ever really did.
26 posted on 05/16/2006 6:55:02 AM PDT by okiedog
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To: okiedog

General Zinni led airstrikes against so called WMD targets in Iraq and Sudan, and had every single troop that rotated through his AOR injected with Anthrax vaccine due to the so called "Iraqi WMD threat" which he now denies.

His underminement after the fact is dishonorable. Additionally, he developed War Plans to invade Iraq with 400,000 or so troops, yet he failed to push requirements for adequate body armor during the budget drills...Instead the brass were pushing for Gulfstream V executive transport jets. He is the Admiral Crowe of the new millenium.

We broke Iraq and have the responsibility to fix it.


27 posted on 05/16/2006 7:12:11 AM PDT by Wristpin ("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: okiedog
As I read the original post, the legal basis for the invasion of Iraq was his violations of the cease-fire terms. The plethora of U.N. resolutions indicates to me that Saddam was given every opportunity to comply with them.

Certainly it's duplicitous to say the U.N. is worthless but non-compliance with one of it's resolutions is a causus belli.

Most of the polling I've seen from Iraq indicates the Iraqis are more optimistic about their future than we are. They also want us to leave after their country is able to provide its own security. That's our goal too.

As for Zinni, Gen. Tommy Franks had good words for him in his book so he's obviously not another Weasley Clark. His entry into politics does tarnish him (as it seems to tarnish everyone). I find the "intelligence was manipulated" argument absurd on its face and not supported by the evidence.

It's absurd to think the intelligence community was manipulated by the Administration. They were saying the same things they said in the prior ten years. Their estimates were unequivocal - both to President, and to Congress in the NIE. They paralleled the 1998 estimates used to justify Operation Desert Fox.

The reason I say it's not supported by the facts is that we've had multiple investigations and they've uncovered no evidence of the Administration pressuring the Intelligence Community to change their conclusions.

Actually, I find the revisionists doing the manipulation. They take a footnote or single dissenting paragraph and play it up as "proof" the intelligence community had doubts. They will tell us the DOE disagreed on purported use of the aluminum tubes but leave off the preceding sentence where the DOE agreed Saddam was trying to restart his nuclear program.

They highlight a report from an investigating team that concluded the mobile trailers weren't for bioweapons. In the 24th paragraph they finally mention the other two teams that concluded they were. Then the beleaguered press secretary shows them the official report, handed to the President the day before he announced that the trailers were WMD on wheels. The official report concluded they were, based on the other two teams' work. The media also don't mention that the SSCI report found the CIA had not still not changed their conclusion on the trailers over a year later.

So again, here's the President, telling us exactly what the intelligence community told him, and being called a liar for it because two years later some people disagree with that conclusion (while some still agree). To me, it's the revisionists are doing the "cherry- picking". As the outgoing Senator from Georgia said at the 2004 GOP convention, they are willing to tear down the Commander in Chief during a time of war for political gain.

28 posted on 05/16/2006 7:38:35 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: okiedog

Oh, you mean that same prosecutor who couldn't find any wrongdoing except a guy who may not have remembered exactly what he said to a reporter or two ? That prosecutor who, after more than 20 million dollars and a few years still can't tell us whether Plame was a covert agent under the terms of the law ?

And what was the "character assassination" ? That she lied when she said she was not responsible in any way for sending her husband to Niger, even tho proof has emerged that she was the one who recommended him ?

Some character defamation.


29 posted on 05/16/2006 7:51:34 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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