Posted on 05/19/2006 5:02:05 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge
The Turks are usually not that anti-semitic or anti-american. Of course they are muslims, but they are normally very moderate. You should not forget that their government i.e. has a close cooperation with Israel. The fact that you can get attacked in Turkish areas has on one hand its reasons in the social disaster there (hordes of unemployed and uneducated young men) on the other with their lack of self assurance. Young Turks are in the lowest social class in Germany. Quite simular to the "black" areas of some american towns, where the social underdogs are also a danger to the public.
Espechially the old SED-cadre of the DDR consists of old racists. This is definitly true. Anyway they are dying out. The new lefties have no national connection anymore and are for sure free of any kind of racism.
Remember: NAZI stands for National Socialists...
In fact, if you look at all Third World Marxist countries, from P.R. China to Cuba, all have very intense nationalist overtones. None of them treated (or treats) the "proletarians have no fatherland" motto from the Communist Manifesto seriously.
Had their leaders been Westerners the intellectuals would have treated them as neo-Nazis and new Hitlers. But because of their skin colour they end up adulated by the intellectual class.
I was in old East Germany two years ago, and I am still walking around. Germany is going to be the premier land power (if it already isn't) in Europe very shortly. I would say on the order of 10-15 years.
I personally am going to learn German.
Augustin Cebada:
"If anyone's going to be deported it's going to be you! Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! To back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You're old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you, leave like beaten rats. You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die, that they have a duty to die. They're taking up too much space, too much air.
Art Torres:
"And people say to me on the Senate floor when I was in the Senate, 'Why do you fight so hard for affirmative action programs?' And I tell my white colleagues, 'because you're going to need them.'"
Mario Obledo:
:Caller: "You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state and if anyone doesn't like it they should leave - did you say that?" Obledo: "I did. They ought to go back to Europe."
I think others have said it better, but the idea that Hitler was right-wing is a carefully constructed left-wing myth. He was a big-government left-winger, or "fascist".
Of course Hitler also had that whole malignant "blood/master-race/joos are evil" thing as well, which distinguishes him in our minds from just-as-evil sociopaths like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Hitler was more obviously evil - whereas the colossal holocausts of Socialism were carried out "for the greater good of mankind". Also Socialism was an equal-opportunities killer, compared with Hitler's aryans-only version.
Well, some people DO return the favor:
The late Tookie Williams:
"'Killing All White People' Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get something to eat. When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people." (TT 2189, 2193)."
The National Socialist German Workers Party, hardly sounds "right wing" to me.
Exactly, most of the Brownshirts, started out as militant Communists.
'What I'm saying is that the conventionally accepted "common sense" like "racism is an extension of nationalism, which only occurs from the Right" is false i.e. don't assume these people are racist so that they must be far-right.'
I see what you mean now - I didn't get it from your first reply. A fair point. My post however was attempting to highlight the apparent irony of racist fascists claiming to be 'national socialists' when obviously socialism and fascism are traditional at opposing ends of the political spectrum.
'Your comment is absurd and shows a very limited view of history.'
Please enlighten me. I suggest that east german racist thugs are likely to have associations with nazi-supporting groups. Why exactly does that show i have a limited view of history?
'Remember: NAZI stands for National Socialists...'
I will as it was in my first post to this thread. The official name of the nazis was national socialist but they were of course fascists which is as far right as you can go. The very extremes of left and right are just as damaging as each other. In the first half of the 20th century one could be a fascist and on the extreme right or left depending on your personal beliefs! It was not quite so clear cut back then.
Starbase did a pretty good job of beating me to the punch. Or was there something about his/her comments you didn't understand?
'Actually, Hitler, and Nazism for that matter, was very left-wing.'
I'm afraid I have to disagree - Hitler was primarily a fascist and that is a far right doctrine. I believe this article is the most appropriate definition I have read:
http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html
And I say all this as a life-long Conservative!
'The National Socialist German Workers Party, hardly sounds "right wing" to me.'
That is the irony to which i referred earlier. Fascism is however entirely a far right construct, not a left wing one.
Read my reply to starbase.
this is an issue with soccer fans through out the former soviet republics. These clubs and fans are fantatically nationalistic, and unfortunately it is directly related to their soccer team obsessions. Unlike Europes larger international soccer teams, most of these lesser known teams are reflective of their hometown and city/country...with few players being recruited from abroad. Some of the fans really are thugs, particularly the ones who belong to the club itself.
Fascism is form of nationalism with a centrally directed and controlled means of production, and was practiced by the soviet "communist republics" as well. The fascists were as anti-capitalistic as one could get without praying to the alter of internationalism...which differentiated them from the communists.
Political movments should be differentiated by the degree of central government control over economics, religion, culture etc....in that vein fascism falls far to the left.
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