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IS EASTERN GERMANY SAFE FOR FOREIGNERS? - Racism Warning Has German Hackles Raised
DER SPIEGEL ^ | May 18, 2006 | cgh/dpa/ap/ddp

Posted on 05/19/2006 5:02:05 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge

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To: heartwood
I rather suspect women, Jews and lone Americns should not wander into Turkish parts of the cities.

The Turks are usually not that anti-semitic or anti-american. Of course they are muslims, but they are normally very moderate. You should not forget that their government i.e. has a close cooperation with Israel. The fact that you can get attacked in Turkish areas has on one hand its reasons in the social disaster there (hordes of unemployed and uneducated young men) on the other with their lack of self assurance. Young Turks are in the lowest social class in Germany. Quite simular to the "black" areas of some american towns, where the social underdogs are also a danger to the public.

21 posted on 05/19/2006 6:01:04 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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To: NZerFromHK; Vectorian
They could well be Linkeparti supporters.

Espechially the old SED-cadre of the DDR consists of old racists. This is definitly true. Anyway they are dying out. The new lefties have no national connection anymore and are for sure free of any kind of racism.

22 posted on 05/19/2006 6:07:19 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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To: Vectorian
Hitler was no "right-wing leader." His Nazis were a branch of the German left that out-street-fought the communists and others. True conservatives do not want big governments making decisions for them and taking over their lives. There were, however, two major differences between the Nazis and classic commies: 1) the basic theory of socialism/communism rests on class struggle and the hatred of the upper classes by the proletariat; Hitler substituted racial purity and racism for classism and 2) unlike classic commies, the Nazis did not remove (in a wholesale fashion) leaders of industry and put in their own bureaucrats--they let corporate management stay, but controlled them.

Remember: NAZI stands for National Socialists...

23 posted on 05/19/2006 6:08:02 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: Vectorian; Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
. . . . last time you had high unemployment, it was solved by electing a right-wing leader.

Actually, Hitler, and Nazism for that matter, was very left-wing. Nazism never supported individual rights, liberty or free enterprise, the hallmarks of Right Wing thought. It was a brand of Socialism.

You should say a left wing leader was elected, but to the extent that you refer to those past events as though they were recent, you should get with the program and understand the Nazis have been defeated lo these sixty years. It's in the past and one should not bring it up every time the word "Germany" is mentioned.
24 posted on 05/19/2006 6:14:50 AM PDT by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: Pharmboy; Vectorian

In fact, if you look at all Third World Marxist countries, from P.R. China to Cuba, all have very intense nationalist overtones. None of them treated (or treats) the "proletarians have no fatherland" motto from the Communist Manifesto seriously.

Had their leaders been Westerners the intellectuals would have treated them as neo-Nazis and new Hitlers. But because of their skin colour they end up adulated by the intellectual class.


25 posted on 05/19/2006 6:15:53 AM PDT by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: July 4th

I was in old East Germany two years ago, and I am still walking around. Germany is going to be the premier land power (if it already isn't) in Europe very shortly. I would say on the order of 10-15 years.

I personally am going to learn German.


26 posted on 05/19/2006 6:47:44 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: Atlantic Bridge; NZerFromHK; Vectorian; July 4th; bkepley; Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit; Vaquero; ...
And then there is America:

Augustin Cebada:

"If anyone's going to be deported it's going to be you! Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! To back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You're old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you, leave like beaten rats. You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die, that they have a duty to die. They're taking up too much space, too much air.

Art Torres:

"And people say to me on the Senate floor when I was in the Senate, 'Why do you fight so hard for affirmative action programs?' And I tell my white colleagues, 'because you're going to need them.'"

Mario Obledo:

:Caller: "You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state and if anyone doesn't like it they should leave - did you say that?" Obledo: "I did. They ought to go back to Europe."

link

27 posted on 05/19/2006 7:08:03 AM PDT by Enterprise (The MSM - Propaganda wing and news censorship division of the Democrat Party.)
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To: Vectorian
last time you had high unemployment, it was solved by electing a right-wing leader national socialist

I think others have said it better, but the idea that Hitler was right-wing is a carefully constructed left-wing myth. He was a big-government left-winger, or "fascist".

Of course Hitler also had that whole malignant "blood/master-race/joos are evil" thing as well, which distinguishes him in our minds from just-as-evil sociopaths like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Hitler was more obviously evil - whereas the colossal holocausts of Socialism were carried out "for the greater good of mankind". Also Socialism was an equal-opportunities killer, compared with Hitler's aryans-only version.

28 posted on 05/19/2006 7:15:14 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: bkepley; Vaquero; heartwood; Fruitbat; Pharmboy
bkepley wrote: "I'm sure we return the favor here."

Well, some people DO return the favor:

The late Tookie Williams:

"'Killing All White People' Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get something to eat. When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people." (TT 2189, 2193)."

line

29 posted on 05/19/2006 7:16:33 AM PDT by Enterprise (The MSM - Propaganda wing and news censorship division of the Democrat Party.)
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To: Vectorian
Hmmm. . . . last time you had high unemployment, it was solved by electing a right-wing leader.

The National Socialist German Workers Party, hardly sounds "right wing" to me.

30 posted on 05/19/2006 7:18:36 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: Pharmboy
His Nazis were a branch of the German left that out-street-fought the communists and others.

Exactly, most of the Brownshirts, started out as militant Communists.

31 posted on 05/19/2006 7:20:59 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: NZerFromHK

'What I'm saying is that the conventionally accepted "common sense" like "racism is an extension of nationalism, which only occurs from the Right" is false i.e. don't assume these people are racist so that they must be far-right.'

I see what you mean now - I didn't get it from your first reply. A fair point. My post however was attempting to highlight the apparent irony of racist fascists claiming to be 'national socialists' when obviously socialism and fascism are traditional at opposing ends of the political spectrum.


32 posted on 05/19/2006 8:46:32 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

'Your comment is absurd and shows a very limited view of history.'

Please enlighten me. I suggest that east german racist thugs are likely to have associations with nazi-supporting groups. Why exactly does that show i have a limited view of history?


33 posted on 05/19/2006 8:49:46 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: Pharmboy

'Remember: NAZI stands for National Socialists...'

I will as it was in my first post to this thread. The official name of the nazis was national socialist but they were of course fascists which is as far right as you can go. The very extremes of left and right are just as damaging as each other. In the first half of the 20th century one could be a fascist and on the extreme right or left depending on your personal beliefs! It was not quite so clear cut back then.


34 posted on 05/19/2006 8:55:21 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: Vectorian; starbase
Please enlighten me.

Starbase did a pretty good job of beating me to the punch. Or was there something about his/her comments you didn't understand?

35 posted on 05/19/2006 8:56:23 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (No one cares if the muzzies are free. It really is about their oil.)
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To: starbase

'Actually, Hitler, and Nazism for that matter, was very left-wing.'

I'm afraid I have to disagree - Hitler was primarily a fascist and that is a far right doctrine. I believe this article is the most appropriate definition I have read:

http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html

And I say all this as a life-long Conservative!


36 posted on 05/19/2006 9:01:32 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: dfwgator

'The National Socialist German Workers Party, hardly sounds "right wing" to me.'

That is the irony to which i referred earlier. Fascism is however entirely a far right construct, not a left wing one.


37 posted on 05/19/2006 9:04:14 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

Read my reply to starbase.


38 posted on 05/19/2006 9:05:52 AM PDT by Vectorian
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To: Atlantic Bridge

this is an issue with soccer fans through out the former soviet republics. These clubs and fans are fantatically nationalistic, and unfortunately it is directly related to their soccer team obsessions. Unlike Europes larger international soccer teams, most of these lesser known teams are reflective of their hometown and city/country...with few players being recruited from abroad. Some of the fans really are thugs, particularly the ones who belong to the club itself.


39 posted on 05/19/2006 9:06:14 AM PDT by Katya (I)
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To: Vectorian

Fascism is form of nationalism with a centrally directed and controlled means of production, and was practiced by the soviet "communist republics" as well. The fascists were as anti-capitalistic as one could get without praying to the alter of internationalism...which differentiated them from the communists.
Political movments should be differentiated by the degree of central government control over economics, religion, culture etc....in that vein fascism falls far to the left.


40 posted on 05/19/2006 9:10:28 AM PDT by Katya (I)
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