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Mark Steyn: Not just immigration: It's societal transformation
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | May 21, 2006 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 05/21/2006 2:24:13 AM PDT by croak

From the Washington Times: "The Senate voted yesterday to allow illegal aliens to collect Social Security benefits based on past illegal employment."

Well, I think that's the kind of moderate compromise "comprehensive immigration reform" package all Americans can support, don't you?

Some mean-spirited extremist House Republicans had proposed that illegal aliens should only receive 75 percent of the benefits to which they're illegally entitled for having broken the law.

On the other hand, President Bush had proposed that illegal aliens should also be able to collect Social Security benefits for any work they'd done in Mexico (assuming, for the purposes of argument, there is any work to be done in Mexico).

(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 109th; chicagosuntimes; federalspending; marksteyn; mexerica; socialsecurity; ssi
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1 posted on 05/21/2006 2:24:14 AM PDT by croak
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To: croak
President Bush had proposed that illegal aliens should also be able to collect Social Security benefits for any work they'd done in Mexico

I believe stein is factually wrong here. Bush said that mexican nationals who work legally in the US and pay into US social security, should be able to collect US social security if they retire to mexico.

I disagree with this on practical grounds as the US social security system is already in a mess.

2 posted on 05/21/2006 2:38:00 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: croak

It seems to me an awful lot of legislation is being passed all of a sudden.

The people haven't had a chance to even hear the questions at hand, much less write and read magazine articles and discuss the options.

One day immigration hits the front page, then a bunch of laws are slammed through.

The people that should be making these (the American people)decisions are being shoved aside while the laws are put in place that decide the issues.


Why the rush?


3 posted on 05/21/2006 2:38:45 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Why the rush?

Maybe because of those screaming "NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW NOWWWW!"?

4 posted on 05/21/2006 2:42:31 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Kowtowing to the Bush haters ends now)
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To: staytrue
I believe stein is factually wrong here. Bush said that mexican nationals who work legally in the US and pay into US social security, should be able to collect US social security if they retire to mexico.

I assumed that was satire. Nevertheless, I think it was a decent article. So far it looks as if they're preparing to give it to us "Deliverance" style.
5 posted on 05/21/2006 2:42:42 AM PDT by Jaysun (Even with a paddle, shit creek ain't no picnic.)
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To: croak
On the other hand, President Bush had proposed that illegal aliens should also be able to collect Social Security benefits for any work they'd done in Mexico

Add Mark Steyn to the roster of "sleeper disruptors" who have wormed their way into conservaitve hearts, waiting for years for their opportunity to sew disruption.

6 posted on 05/21/2006 2:44:06 AM PDT by LK44-40
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To: croak

I like Steyn a lot, but when he mixes his inventions with real situations this way I just opt out.


7 posted on 05/21/2006 2:46:49 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Kowtowing to the Bush haters ends now)
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To: croak
Mexerica: The amnestiers new birth certificate.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

8 posted on 05/21/2006 2:57:43 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Darkwolf377

"Maybe because of those screaming "NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW NOWWWW!"?



My fear is that it is being rushed through to undercut us.

That the politicians want to pass the laws before the people push for harsher measures.


9 posted on 05/21/2006 2:59:45 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: croak

It's like being swallowed by a snake. Before you know it, you're dinner. Every inch is another step toward integrating with the US. That's the goal, and notice nobody in the admin. is saying so out loud...but they're gloating in public down in Mexico. At some point Bush or Hill or whoever's in the White House will announce it as a statement of fact, so deal with it...peacefully. Mexico will continue to do business as usual, the US will accomodate them, warts and all. Mexico's laws and customs will continue, corruption, violence, whatever. The US will ignore it as mere growing pains. This will be the model for integrating with other countries in the hemisphere. Look, Ma...no hands.


10 posted on 05/21/2006 3:07:57 AM PDT by hershey
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To: staytrue
In Europe, the political class sowed the seeds of massive social upheaval for the most short-sighted of reasons. If America's political class wants to do the same, it could at least have the integrity to discuss the issue in honest terms.

Steyn nails the flat-out dishonesty of the politicians now trotting out their fake straw-man definition of "Amnesty".

Amnesty is always something beyond the amnesty they're proposing.

11 posted on 05/21/2006 3:08:44 AM PDT by RodgerD (Reject the Migration Explosion Act of 2006. No to 100 million new aliens.)
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To: Darkwolf377
you wrote: Maybe because of those screaming "NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW NOWWWW!"?

uh. beg to differ. no one is screaming "now." they're screaming si peuda and death to whitey.

12 posted on 05/21/2006 3:21:09 AM PDT by johnboy
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To: johnboy
uh. beg to differ. no one is screaming "now."

Yeah, they are.

13 posted on 05/21/2006 3:21:45 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Kowtowing to the Bush haters ends now)
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To: croak

Excellent article.

The satire challenged and those without a sense of humor - don't read it.


14 posted on 05/21/2006 3:22:57 AM PDT by rcocean (Copyright is theft and loved by Hollywood socialists)
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To: johnboy; Darkwolf377
no one is screaming "now."

Ok, maybe they aren't all screaming "Now!"

A lot are screaming "Too little, too late!"

15 posted on 05/21/2006 3:26:43 AM PDT by Flyer (He is so fool under the Toshiba's mind-control)
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To: croak
"Some mean-spirited extremist House Republicans had proposed that illegal aliens should only receive 75 percent of the benefits to which they're illegally entitled for having broken the law."

Well, I'm compassionately for giving illegal aliens everything they've justly earned. Apprehension, arrest, jailtime, and deportation.

16 posted on 05/21/2006 3:27:47 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: Darkwolf377
Maybe because of those screaming "NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW NOWWWW!"?

Who is 'those'? Politicians that want to provide amnest as soon as possible?

17 posted on 05/21/2006 3:38:59 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: croak

bttt


18 posted on 05/21/2006 3:39:03 AM PDT by KeyWest (Help stamp out taglines!)
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To: ansel12
Why the rush?

Elections in November. Most states have a minimum residency requirement so the have to grant amnesty now to get them on the voter rolls.

19 posted on 05/21/2006 3:40:23 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: croak
But, even if you succeeded in re-annexing it, a large-scale "guest worker" class entirely drawn from one particular demographic has been a recipe for disaster everywhere it's been tried. Fiji, for example, comprises native Fijians and ethnic Indians brought in as indentured workers by the British. If memory serves, currently 46.2 percent are native Fijians and 48.6 percent are Indo-Fijians. In 1987, the first Indian-majority government came to power. A month later, Col. Sitiveni Rabuka staged the first of his two coups.

Exactly what I have been saying all along.

Here is what I proprose then. Since we have an estimated 11 million illegals here now, most of whom (I'll say 8 million) are from Mexico/Central America/South America (M/CA/SA) and we assume the rest are from other parts of the world, we need to balance that out? Right? That leaves a differential of 8 million.

So. First, we secure our southern border and northern border. Then, taking up to 3 million legal immigrants, who meet our qualifications, per year from these other ethnic regions around the world. (Note: we are not taking 3 million each, but a total of three million each year till they reach that 8 million goal per ethinc region):

1. The European Union/Great Britain

2. Eastern Europe

3. Russia/The Balkan States

4. China

5. Western Asia

6. Southern Asia

7. The Middle East

8. The African Tribal Nations

9. South Africa

10. New Zealand/Australia/South Pacific

11. The Eskimo/Aleut/Northern Peoples

12. The Carribean

That's the best I can come up with. Any more?

In the meantime (you knew there was one of those, didn't you?) we put a moratorium on immigration from the M/CA/SA region until that quota of 8 million from each of those other regions is met bringing in a limit of 3 million per year regardless of the makeup.

That means we have to bring in 96 million from those other 12 regions. Dividing that by 3 million means that the moratorium on the M/CA/SA region would last 32 years.

20 posted on 05/21/2006 3:42:30 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: ansel12
Why the rush?

Because they have to get a bill through in the next little while for it to make it to Bush's desk in the Fall. Why they want this piece of crap signed just before elections is a mystery.

But I don't think it'll happen. Even if the Senate passes something, it has to be massaged into a compromise with the House bill. And it looks like House Republicans (bless 'em) are going to stand firm on their position (which is the tougher one).

So, probably no compromise bill will reach Bush this year. Which is the best we can hope for, I think.

21 posted on 05/21/2006 3:43:57 AM PDT by prion (Yes, as a matter of fact, I AM the spelling police)
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To: prion

encouraging, thanks


22 posted on 05/21/2006 3:51:12 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: JustPiper; gubamyster; HiJinx

ping


23 posted on 05/21/2006 3:53:28 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: Darkwolf377

i stand corrected. you are right. they're screaming si peuda and death to whitey ... now.


24 posted on 05/21/2006 4:04:50 AM PDT by johnboy
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To: raybbr

again ... i consider your proposal genious.


25 posted on 05/21/2006 4:06:54 AM PDT by johnboy
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To: croak
"illegal aliens should also be able to collect Social Security benefits for any work they'd done in Mexico (assuming, for the purposes of argument, there is any work to be done in Mexico)

"Work they did in MEXICO" ??
They came here illegally they are foreign nationals what part of that is difficult to grasp?

WHY, WHY, WHY would AMERICAN Government pay a bunch of foreign nationals for work they did in THEIR OWN Country?

Come on people we must stop this insanity already!

26 posted on 05/21/2006 4:08:01 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A. and the Troops who protect her.)
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To: johnboy

Thannks. This has been a sticking point with me. Why only hispanics?


27 posted on 05/21/2006 4:11:59 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: croak
"Well, I think that's the kind of moderate compromise "comprehensive immigration reform" package all Americans can support, don't you?

NO !!!

28 posted on 05/21/2006 4:12:11 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A. and the Troops who protect her.)
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To: Darkwolf377

The only thing most are screaming now,now,now for is BORDER CONTROL!


29 posted on 05/21/2006 4:13:07 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A. and the Troops who protect her.)
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To: stopem
That part was meant as satire as was this:

On the other other hand, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) had added earmarks to the bill proposing that the family of Mohamed Atta should be entitled to receive survivor benefits plus an American Airlines pilot's pension based on past illegal employment flying jets over the northeast corridor on Tuesday mornings in late 2001.

Gets your attention and really seem no so far-fetched in this political climate, does it?

30 posted on 05/21/2006 4:13:34 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: raybbr

You know, lately with all the insane things coming out of Washington who knows anymore.
Who would have thought Republicans would side with democrats on any issue let alone socialist ideas.


31 posted on 05/21/2006 4:17:12 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A. and the Troops who protect her.)
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To: stopem
you wrote: Who would have thought Republicans would side with democrats on any issue ... .

at this point, i don't think there's a person on the planet who hates the "republicans" and george bush more than me.

even so, i have to say that you paint with too broad a brush; viz. the problem is not ... entirely ... necessarily ... the "republicans."

i think, yes, george bush and his enabler rinos and senate democrats are a national shame.

but ... "the republicans?" all of them? they are, sadly, a disappointment as a group. but, really, could you imagine alcee hastings, or marion barry, or (oh, goodness, who are those black women congress creatures we've read about?) or any of those vile ... (sorry, words fail me).

can you honestly say that any of those 'people' would be elected anywhere, to any public office, by "republicans?"

sadly, the difference between the parties is not so much a difference between their leaders (i will maintain to my death that newt gingrich and bill clinton had more in common than differences), as a difference in the rank and file.

WE are the republican party. not that traitor in the white house who wants to import 193 million non english speaking welfare recipients and demorat voters.

32 posted on 05/21/2006 4:38:37 AM PDT by johnboy
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To: ansel12
Why the rush?

Because if the American People wake up and really catch on to the scam, there will be extensive debate, analysis, and hell to pay. In a fait accompli, the sheeple will simply shrug and go back to Oprah.

Besides, ramming terrible legislation through erases fingerprints.

33 posted on 05/21/2006 4:41:54 AM PDT by Gritty (Technically, 'amnesty' is only pardoning a crime rather than also giving a cash bonus-Mark Steyn)
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To: croak

bttt


34 posted on 05/21/2006 4:42:52 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Gritty

All well said.


35 posted on 05/21/2006 4:46:04 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: stopem
You know, lately with all the insane things coming out of Washington 

Michael Savage postulates we have a lot of older Senators on prescription medications that are making them whacked out. Sure seems like that. They gleefully sell out this sovereign nation. The only brake on them on illegal immigration is the American public.

who knows anymore. Who would have thought Republicans would side with democrats on any issue let alone socialist ideas.

Spector is one of the worst. This power mad ba*tard should have retired years ago. He's had serious cancer and more. The lust for power keeps him energized. The lust to lord over Americans with his idiot ideas. Such as quadrupling legal immigration

36 posted on 05/21/2006 4:49:09 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: raybbr
It's simple enough to reinstitute some sort of national origins quota system ~ just like we used to have ~ however it's pretty obvious that any such scheme would find Mexico incredibly oversubscribed and left out of the loop forever, not just 32 years.

None of their 8 to 10 million illegals would get in.

Since "W" and the US Senate seem to want to give a preference to the Mexicans, the result would be thoroughly racist with the Mexicans getting immigration quotas that rightfully belong to other nations.

37 posted on 05/21/2006 4:57:26 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: stopem

Re: my other post, it appears some are taking it wrong,
there is the Kennedy/Mccain bill that Specter and Graham are pushing and the Hagel/Martinez bill that was what I am specifically meaning by those with (R) supporting those with (D) that is shocking.

There are those that have my support Cornyn,Hutchison,Kyl,Hayworth,Sessions,Tancredo and many,many more. President Bush always has my support even when I disagree with him. I respect the man. He has done more good and I have only disagreed with him on one issue.


38 posted on 05/21/2006 5:07:19 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A. and the Troops who protect her.)
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To: Gritty
Because if the American People wake up and really catch on to the scam, there will be extensive debate, analysis, and hell to pay. In a fait accompli, the sheeple will simply shrug and go back to Oprah. Besides, ramming terrible legislation through erases fingerprints.

Illegal immigration is all about making fait accompli. GWBush and Rove are very clever. Due to 911 they couldn't get any guest worker program through. So they got rid of workplace raids and made our Mexican border wide open. They instituted catch and release for non-Mexicans infiltrating our southern border.

All so that one day they could get up and proclaim how we simply cannot deport 12 (actually 20) million illegal aliens. So that our senile Senators could also say the same thing. This mass of illegal aliens was foisted on the American people in the most underhanded sneaky ways. George Bush only enforces the laws he likes

39 posted on 05/21/2006 5:14:47 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw
you wrote: Spector is one of the worst. This power mad ba*tard should have retired years ago. He's had serious cancer and more.

you remind me of an incident years ago. i appeared in court in ********* california. the other attorney was making a 'telephone appearance' because he was down in the bay area.

this judge, who had (terminal) liver cancer from being an open, obvious, everyone knew about it, er, drinking problem was in the process of dying.

i swear ... i was in his chambers, he was incapable of dialing the telephone. the court clerk (his secretary) came in and dialed it for him.

praise the lord, he died. in a week or two.

six months later, a ruling was issued by 'the court'.

everything is gamed.

40 posted on 05/21/2006 5:22:01 AM PDT by johnboy
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To: croak
"I can't seem to find a word that does cover what the Senate is proposing, it having never previously occurred to any other society in the course of human history."

I found it! It's called suicide.

41 posted on 05/21/2006 5:23:38 AM PDT by Thom Pain (Supporting the Constitution is NOT right wing. It is centrist.)
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To: raybbr
the have to grant amnesty now to get them on the voter rolls.

In California and probably in other Democrat jurisdictions, they are already on the voter rolls. With the motor voter laws they will determine our government in a couple of years, perhaps in 2008. Many Republicans seem eager for permanent unassailable Democrat majorities.

42 posted on 05/21/2006 5:26:40 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: raybbr

Other estimates of the actual population of illegals run up to 40 million. 11 million is the official figure, the documented illegals, as it were. That official figure is going to be terribly low because the officials figuring want the number to be nonthreatening.


43 posted on 05/21/2006 5:29:37 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: johnboy

It is actually "si (with accent) se peude)." Yes, one can.


44 posted on 05/21/2006 5:45:06 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: croak

Thanks for posting. Bumping FReeper comments!


45 posted on 05/21/2006 5:55:56 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: croak
From the article: By some counts, up to 5 percent of the U.S. population is now "undocumented." Why? In part because American business is so over-regulated that there is a compelling economic logic to the employment of illegals. In essence, a chunk of the American economy has seceded from the Union.

Everyone's got their pet peeves/theories, but THIS is what has been bothering me all along and I want to shout it from the rooftops.

When I hear GWB and others talk about jobs "Americans won't do" I mentally substitute "Jobs that Americans could do gainfully if the EPA, OSHA, EEOC and other pencil-pushers didn't encumber the employers with piles of paperwork."

46 posted on 05/21/2006 6:02:24 AM PDT by relictele
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To: croak

I think this is smoke and mirrors. All illegals will not collect for past work and possibly never collect anything.

It is reported that illegals use false Social Security Numbers. If the money is deposited to a falseaccount it can not be withdrawn from that account by multiple persons. The money is forfeit to SS administration.


47 posted on 05/21/2006 6:07:05 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: ansel12
The people haven't had a chance to even hear the questions...

Screw the questions, WE haven't, and sadly won't, have a chance to VOTE on this issue.

We're being sold out.Our country is being taken away bit by illegal bit, and all we can do is bid it fairwell.

48 posted on 05/21/2006 6:23:22 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: arthurus; raybbr
No one really knows how many illegal immigrants there are because they all snuck in or disappeared. Of course we don't know how many there are.

I would wager that there are more than the official estimates in California alone, and millions more anywhere there is construction or landscaping or restaurants.

The only sane thing to do at this point is to focus on closing the borders for the present. There really is no way to "send them all home".

I would suggest, for an initial policy, to immediately deport all illegal aliens who have committed crimes in the USA (other than just being here).

For the rest, better learn English and be on your best behavior, and learn which flag to fly.

49 posted on 05/21/2006 7:36:57 AM PDT by Sender (“The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names.” – Old Chinese proverb)
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To: croak
While there has been a considerable drought in Marks work this month he more than makes up for it with this one:

Under the new "comprehensive immigration reform" bill (Posse Como Estas?), a posse of National Guardsmen will be stationed in the Arizona desert but only as Wal-Mart greeters to escort members of the Illegal-American community to the nearest Social Security office to register for benefits backdated to 1973.

50 posted on 05/21/2006 7:42:51 AM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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